CASE NO. 99-7430-CI-08

                      IN THE CIRCUIT COURT IN AND FOR
                          PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA

                           CASE NO. 99-7430-CI-08

           ORGANIZATION, INC., a Florida           
           ROBERT S. MINTON, JR., ET AL.,          

                 BEFORE:       The Honorable THOMAS E. PENICK, JR.

                 PLACE:        Pinellas County Judicial Building
                               545 First Avenue North
                               St. Petersburg, Florida

                 DATE:         February 16, 2001

                 TIME:         Commencing at 1:30 P.M.

                 REPORTED BY:  JACKIE L. OSTROM
                               Court Reporter

                            ORDERS TO SHOW CASE
                                               Pages 1064 - 1181
                                               Volume IX

                      ROBERT A. DEMPSTER & ASSOCIATES
                                P.O. BOX 35
                            CLEARWATER, FLORIDA
                               (727) 443-0992



           The Honorable THOMAS E. PENICK, JR.

           911 Chestnut
           Clearwater, Florida

           3055 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 900
           Los Angeles, California  90010

           Attorneys for Church of Scientology Flag Ship

           2716 Herschel Street
           Jacksonville, Florida  32205

           5720 Central Avenue
           St. Petersburg, Florida  33707

           Attorneys for Robert Minton and
           Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc.

.                                                                1066

       1                        PROCEEDINGS

       2            THE COURT:  Mr. Merrett, sir, call your

       3       next witness.

       4            MR. MERRETT:  Call Tory Bezazian.

       5   Thereupon:

       6                       TORY BEZAZIAN

       7   was called as a witness and having been duly sworn, was

       8   examined and testified as follows:

       9                     DIRECT EXAMINATION

      10   BY MR. MERRETT:

      11        Q    Ms. Bezazian, where do you live?

      12        A    Burbank, California.

      13        Q    How long have you lived in California?

      14        A    Since 1969.

      15        Q    Are you a member of the International

      16   Association of Scientologists?

      17        A    Yes, sir.

      18        Q    How long have you been a member of that

      19   organization?

      20        A    Since it was formed.

      21        Q    And about when was that?

      22        A    I believe -- I'm not really great with dates

      23   but I think it was the 80s and I was also a HASI

      24   member before that, which was Hubbard Association of

      25   Scientologists International and I was an honorary

.                                                                1067

       1   member.

       2        Q    And were you at one time an active

       3   Scientologist?

       4        A    Was I an active member?

       5        Q    Yes.

       6        A    Yes, sir, for 30 years.  More than 30 years.

       7   Since 1969.

       8        Q    Ending when?

       9        A    July, I believe, July 18 or around there, of

      10   this year.

      11        Q    Of 2000?

      12        A    Uh-huh.

      13        Q    And what led you to leave Scientology?

      14        A    It was a combination of things.  I had

      15   finally got to the top of their, what they call their

      16   training and auditing and basically their auditing in

      17   1990 and struggled through for seven years, wrote RTC

      18   over and over begging them to help me because it

      19   wasn't working and -- I'm sorry.  I'm really sorry.

      20            THE COURT:  That's okay.  Take your

      21       time.

      22            MR. MERRETT:  Judge. do we have a

      23       Kleenex?

      24            THE COURT:  Yeah.

      25            MS. BEZAZIAN:  It's okay.  I really am

.                                                                1068

       1       sorry.  Anyway, it wasn't working for me and

       2       I had gained 100 pounds and I was sort of a

       3       wreck mentally and that and a combination of

       4       three of my son's friends killed themselves

       5       over --

       6   BY MR. MERRETT:

       7        Q    Were they also in Scientology?

       8        A    Yeah, and they want to get out and that

       9   combination and just recognizing my life was kind of a

      10   wreck and I wasn't doing well and I didn't really feel

      11   like it was a religion anymore.  It said it was a

      12   religion, but it wasn't and so I just left.

      13        Q    You said that you had made it to the top of

      14   auditing and training.  What was the name of the level

      15   that you had reached?

      16        A    It's called -- well, I was in the middle of

      17   OT7 for seven years and then at the end of seven years

      18   after being in a great deal of debt from paying huge,

      19   huge amounts of money for this level and writing and

      20   saying it wasn't working and begging for help, David

      21   Miscavige who is the head of the Church of Scientology

      22   had a huge event and said that the OT7s which was the

      23   level I was, were really only using three out of the

      24   79 tools they needed and that we had to pay another

      25   $25,000 to get back on the course and do it again and

.                                                                1069

       1   start like from the beginning and I wrote him that

       2   night and said that's not right.

       3            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, let me impose

       4       this objection.  I mean, a little but of

       5       background on the witness is certainly

       6       appropriate, but none of what she said in the

       7       last few minutes has anything to do with the

       8       issue before the court and that is did she or

       9       did she not violate the court's injunction.

      10            THE COURT:  Mr. Merrett.

      11            MR. MERRETT:  Your Honor, I'll move on.

      12            THE COURT:  Thank you.

      13   BY MR. MERRETT:

      14        Q    I got the background.  Let me ask you if at

      15   the request of any particular division or agency

      16   within Scientology you had been involved in any

      17   operations regarding critics of Scientology shortly

      18   before you left?

      19            MR. POPE:  Objection, Your Honor.

      20       Immaterial to any issue now before the court.

      21            THE COURT:  Mr. Merrett.

      22            MR. MERRETT:  Your Honor, the motive and

      23       the practices of Scientology with respect to

      24       the critics goes to the very heart of this

      25       case and the reason that is has been before

.                                                                1070

       1       you.

       2            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, motive doesn't

       3       have a thing to do with it.  We had a trial

       4       at which based on the equities you issued a

       5       temporary injunction.  The only issue before

       6       the court now is did she or did she not

       7       violate it.

       8            THE COURT:  Madam Court Reporter, please

       9       read back the question for my benefit.

      10             (Thereupon, the question referred to was

      11        read by the reporter as above recorded.)

      12            Now. Mr. Merrett, where are we going

      13        with that question?

      14            MR. MERRETT:  It is our position that

      15       the proceeding that we're here on today, the

      16       fact that we have the Director of Special

      17       Affairs for Flag, which is the head of OSA

      18       here locally, essentially directing these

      19       matters, we have RTC/Scientology's in-house

      20       counsel, Ms. Kobrin here, we have OSA edited

      21       tapes, is that essentially the charges and

      22       the vast amounts of money that have been

      23       spent bringing these charges are part of

      24       Scientology's Fair Game Policy with respect

      25       to the persons are opponents of other

.                                                                1071

       1       Scientology.  That's the actual name of the

       2       doctrine promulgated by L. Ron Hubbard for

       3       use by Scientology and dealing with its

       4       enemies and this is the beginning of our

       5       evidence on that point.

       6            What we will demonstrate is that each of

       7        the witnesses who have testified on behalf

       8        of Scientology with the exception of the

       9        police officers is authorized to engage in

      10        falsehood and conjuring of offense and

      11        manufacturing evidence and will be punished

      12        in the event that convictions do not result

      13        from this proceeding, so it goes to the bias

      14        of witnesses, the motive for bringing the

      15        case and the very heart of the prosecution

      16        that's been brought.

      17            THE COURT:  Okay.  Mr. Howie.

      18            MR. HOWIE:  Your Honor, I agree with

      19       Mr. Merrett's position.

      20            THE COURT:  Okay.  Mr. Pope.

      21            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, again the court

      22       has issued an injunction and the question is

      23       are they or are they not complying with the

      24       injunction and this is an effort to do

      25       nothing but create a collateral issue on an

.                                                                1072

       1       item that has nothing to do with this and

       2       where you are faced with cold hard facts of

       3       either they were or they were not complying

       4       with the injunction, if we get into this

       5       we'll be here for another week.

       6            MS. BEZAZIAN:  Can I clarify one thing?

       7            THE COURT:  Just a minute.  Just a

       8       minute.  Hold on.  Mr. Merrett, gentlemen,

       9       gentlemen, yes, there is an injunction.  Yes,

      10       there are some orders to show cause and there

      11       are allegations that there have been

      12       violations.

      13            There has been evidence put on that

      14        there were violations and this is now the

      15        defense's opportunity to show that there

      16        were not or as to why there might have been

      17        violations.

      18            Also, one of the things that the trier

      19        of fact must do is search for the truth.

      20        Anything that's within the scope and the

      21        limits that helps the judge determine truth

      22        is relevant and the objection is overruled.

      23        Proceed.

      24   BY MR. MERRETT:

      25        Q    Thank you, Your Honor.  Were you requested

.                                                                1073

       1   by any particular segment or department of Scientology

       2   to do anything shortly before you left with respect to

       3   critics of Scientology?

       4        A    Yes, sir.

       5        Q    What was it you were asked to do?

       6        A    I was asked --

       7            MR. POPE:  Objection.  Indefinite as to

       8       time; indefinite at to the person who gave

       9       her the instructions.

      10            THE COURT:  Predicate.

      11   BY MR. MERRETT:

      12        Q    Let me as you this.  Were you requested by

      13   the Office of Special Affairs?

      14        A    Yes.

      15        Q    And approximately when did that what

      16   happened?

      17        A    Well, actually from the last two years they

      18   asked me to look on the internet and see if there was

      19   any basically any confidential materials that were on

      20   the internet posted anywhere.

      21        Q    Who was it that made that request?

      22        A    Well, there were different people in OSA.

      23        Q    Can you give us the names of any of them?

      24        A    One was Goveno (sic) is one person and I

      25   forget the other guy's name, but also a volunteer, one

.                                                                1074

       1   of the volunteers, Bill Yardey.

       2        Q    Did --

       3            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, let me object on

       4       the initial grounds.  It appears that she is

       5       testifying as to matters that occurred in the

       6       State of California and had nothing whatever

       7       to do with the plaintiff in this case which

       8       is Church of Scientology Flag Service

       9       Organization, Inc.  There has been no

      10       conceivable showing of any relevance between

      11       what she did in California and this

      12       petitioner.

      13            THE COURT:  Mr. Merrett.

      14            MR. MERRETT:  Well, Your Honor, as

      15       Mr. Pope so eloquently put it yesterday, RTC

      16       is a Scientology corporation.  All

      17       Scientology fronts these organizations

      18       operated under the auspices of RTC.

      19            It is a single monolithic entity.  And I

      20        and prepared to prove that if we need to.

      21            THE COURT:  Proceed.

      22            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, object to what he

      23       just said on the that there is no evidentiary

      24       basis whatever in the record.

      25            MR. MERRETT:  Under the stipulation of

.                                                                1075

       1       counsel.

       2            THE COURT:  Say what?

       3            MR. MERRETT:  If you recall yesterday,

       4       Your Honor, I objected to Mr. Ward being

       5       confronted with the judgment from RTC versus

       6       Ward.

       7            THE COURT:  I understand that.

       8            MR. MERRETT:  Okay.

       9            THE COURT:  Proceed.

      10            MR. MERRETT:  Thank you.

      11            THE COURT:  And Mr. Pope has a

      12       continuing objection.

      13   BY MR. MERRETT:

      14        Q    Was there anything in particular that they

      15   did in you computer to enable you to do this.

      16        A    Yes.

      17        Q    What was that?

      18        A    They removed what's called a Net Nanny from

      19   it, so that I could -- they put a computer -- they pit

      20   a little thing on Scientology computers so that

      21   basically you can't see any criticism about

      22   Scientology.  It's a blockage of certain confidential

      23   things on the internet or criticisms or testimonies,

      24   court documents, things like that.

      25             It had a key word list that they put on and

.                                                                1076

       1   they did this covertly, not overtly.  They didn't tell

       2   me they did it.  They did it in an event saying they

       3   were just coming up to the year 2000 and they we were

       4   all going to have web pages and stuff, but in that

       5   that we put on the computer is this secret Net Nanny

       6   that stops you from actually seeing any criticism of

       7   Scientology.

       8        Q    Did Scientology provide you with the

       9   software to put up a web page that said I'm a

      10   Scientologist, here's my web?

      11        A    Yes.

      12        Q    And the Net Nanny was concealed in that

      13   disk?

      14        A    Yes.

      15        Q    Okay.

      16        A    And it was secretly concealed.

      17        Q    And somebody came and took that off of your

      18   computer so that you could run the web on behalf of

      19   Scientology?

      20        A    They did.

      21        Q    Okay.  And did you do that on behalf of the

      22   office of Special Affairs?

      23        A    Yes.

      24        Q    For about how long?

      25        A    Two years, on and off.  Not like all the

.                                                                1077

       1   time; just on and off.

       2        Q    Okay.  Did you have any other involvement

       3   with critics of criticism of Scientology at the behest

       4   of Scientology?

       5        A    Yes.

       6        Q    What was that?

       7        A    I was the Executive Director of the

       8   Scientology Parishioners League that was operating out

       9   of the Vice President of Church of Scientology's

      10   office.  She was the head of it.

      11        Q    Okay.

      12        A    I mean she was my -- she was the person who

      13   asked me to be the executive director.

      14        Q    Okay.  And how long did you hold that

      15   position?

      16        A    Last October of 1999 until I left.

      17        Q    Okay.  Did you have for example contact with

      18   anybody in this room while acting on behalf of

      19   Scientology?

      20        A    On behalf of it?

      21        Q    Right.

      22        A    Yeah, Mark Bunker was filming at a

      23   Scientology event and I went out to try to quote

      24   unquote, handle him as OSA asked me to go out and

      25   handle him.

.                                                                1078

       1        Q    What does that mean?

       2        A    Try to get rid of him basically.

       3        Q    Okay.  Did you try to do that?

       4        A    I did.

       5        Q    Okay.  Now, let me ask you to bring you up

       6   to the present, you said last summer you left

       7   Scientology?

       8        A    Yes, sir.

       9        Q    Who did you contact when you were ready to

      10   leave?

      11        A    Well, first I contacted a man named Andreas

      12   Headland who is in Norway.

      13        Q    Uh-huh.

      14        A    And he helped me look at, well, I realized

      15   from talking to him that I had strayed a long way from

      16   what I had got into Scientology for.

      17        Q    Uh-huh.

      18        A    And then once I realized I was going to

      19   leave Scientology I didn't know where to go because

      20   you couldn't really talk to anyone in Scientology, so

      21   I started trying to get in touch with Vaughn Young who

      22   I knew was out and I ended up finding Stacy and talked

      23   to Stacy and Bob and Jesse and they --

      24        Q    The people at the Trust?

      25        A    Yeah, and they offered to help me.

.                                                                1079

       1        Q    Did they help you?

       2        A    They did help me greatly.

       3        Q    What did Scientology do when you left?

       4        A    They followed me all the way across the

       5   country.  The Vice President of the Church was at the

       6   airport when I went there trying to stop me and she

       7   followed me for an hour around the airport telling me

       8   not to come to Florida and then I got to Chicago and

       9   they had the Office of Special Affairs in Chicago

      10   saying don't go and then when I got to Clearwater at

      11   1:45 in the morning there were five people there

      12   telling me not to talk to them, and two policemen that

      13   they LMT had asked to be there in case there was

      14   trouble and the police said, you know, she has to

      15   decide which group she's going to go with so I talked

      16   to my friend for a couple minutes and then I said I

      17   pick the LMT and the police actually helped escort us

      18   out of the airport, the Tampa police, holding the

      19   Scientologists back so that we could get out.

      20        Q    Had you been given any specific information

      21   about Robert Minton and/or the LMT by Scientology?

      22        A    I had.

      23        Q    What did Scientology tell you about them?

      24        A    You know, I don't recall specifically.  It

      25   was just something very negative about Robert Minton

.                                                                1080

       1   to the point where I was out for at least a year

       2   promoting to people that he was horrible person and I

       3   was sure he was paid by psychiatry to be doing what he

       4   was doing which was just something -- I don't even

       5   know if I made it up or -- I know they said enough

       6   about him that I came to that conclusion that he must

       7   be being paid by psychiatry to do it and it wasn't

       8   true at all.

       9             I finally met him.  He's probably one of the

      10   kindest people I know and on of the most giving people

      11   I know and I think many Scientologists do have a bad

      12   image of him and it's totally incorrect.

      13        Q    Let me ask you this.  Psychiatry is sort of

      14   the archetypal in the mind of Scientology, is

      15   archetypal enemy?

      16        A    Totally.  Like a devil.

      17        Q    Okay.  In fact in Battlefield Earth, the bad

      18   guys are called Psych Orbs; is that right?

      19        A    Yes.

      20        Q    Has the Lisa McPherson Trust given you any

      21   money?

      22        A    I think at the most Stacy gave my a thousand

      23   dollars.

      24        Q    Okay.  And why was that?

      25        A    Because I was broke.  She helped me.

.                                                                1081

       1        Q    Okay.  Now, have you received what is called

       2   a declare?

       3            MS. BEZAZIAN:  I have been declared,

       4       Your Honor.  You saw the video with me with

       5       me with the horns on, those red horns.  Did

       6       you notice that I had on red horns in any of

       7       the videos?

       8            THE COURT:  Yes, ma'am.

       9            MS. BEZAZIAN:  That's why I wore them,

      10       because when they declare someone it's worse

      11       than the devil.  Like one of my friends for

      12       30 years will talk to me.  They all hang up

      13       the phone on me.  Literally, not my best

      14       friend will talk to me; none of them.

      15   BY MR. MERRETT:

      16        Q    What is that policy called where

      17   Scientologists will not talk to somebody that's been

      18   declared?  Is that disconnection?

      19        A    Disconnection.

      20        Q    And is that a requirement?  Is that the

      21   deal, you're disconnected --

      22        A    It is a requirement once you're declared a

      23   suppressive person they can't speak to you or they get

      24   in really big trouble.

      25        Q    Does that extend even to your own family?

.                                                                1082

       1        A    Well, I really don't want to talk about my

       2   own family.

       3        Q    Okay.  Now --

       4        A    But I am in the middle of a divorce

       5   proceeding after 26 years and it is directly related

       6   to this.

       7        Q    Okay.  You came to Clearwater, got in touch

       8   with the Lisa McPherson Trust, got out of Scientology,

       9   right?

      10        A    Uh-huh.

      11        Q    Let's look at December and January when you

      12   were picketing and let's talk first, you saw the

      13   videotape where you were walking down the east side of

      14   the Clearwater Bank Building.  You know what I'm

      15   talking about?

      16        A    Yes, sir.

      17        Q    Okay.  And this would be the Coachman

      18   Building?

      19        A    Uh-huh.

      20        Q    And you're walking along this way wearing a

      21   black and white plaid shirt; you remember that?

      22        A    Yes, sir.

      23        Q    As you were walking alongside the Clearwater

      24   Bank Building down Ft. Harrison Avenue, what were you

      25   doing?

.                                                                1083

       1        A    I was basically just trying to get from LMT

       2   to the Ft. Harrison to picket.

       3        Q    Were you picketing?

       4        A    No, not at all.

       5        Q    Was there any particular reason that you

       6   were coming down this side of the Clearwater Bank

       7   Building instead of the Watterson Street side?

       8        A    Yes.

       9        Q    Why was that?

      10        A    On the Watterson side you usually run into

      11   Scientologists and it's a bit of a problem so I

      12   thought I'll go the other way because the windows are

      13   all blocked off, I won't be bothering anyone and I can

      14   just walk straight through over to Ft. Harrison

      15        Q    Now, as you were coming this way did you

      16   walk any kind of a circuit back and forth at all here?

      17        A    Not at all, not.  It was straight.  I was a

      18   walking straight through to the hotel.

      19        Q    Before you got where you were going to

      20   picket, did you at any time retrace your steps

      21   alongside the Clearwater Bank Building?

      22        A    No, sir.

      23        Q    Now, you continued on down and picketed

      24   wherever you were picketing, right?

      25        A    I picketed in front of the Ft. Harrison

.                                                                1084

       1   Hotel.

       2        Q    Okay.  That is across the street?

       3        A    Across the street.

       4        Q    Then we see on the videotape is it the same

       5   day that you're coming back that way with Jeff

       6   Jacobsen?

       7        A    I think so.

       8        Q    Okay.  You remember the events that are

       9   shown on the videotape where the green car pulls into

      10   the driveway?

      11        A    Uh-huh.

      12        Q    I want to focus on that and if you would

      13   tell the judge how it came to be that you were talking

      14   to the people in the car?  How did that event start?

      15        A    Basically, I was walking down the street

      16   with my signs and a car pulled in and asked me

      17   something about my horns and I stopped to talk to them

      18   and then stepped back.

      19        Q    Did you stop the car?

      20        A    No, they stopped and asked me something.

      21        Q    Did you beckon to them?

      22        A    No.

      23        Q    Did you wave them down?

      24        A    No.

      25        Q    Okay.  You remember the UPS van?

.                                                                1085

       1        A    I do.

       2        Q    Coming through?

       3        A    Yes.

       4        Q    Was there room for other vehicle to pass in

       5   and out of that driveway?

       6        A    Plenty, as witnessed by the UPS van going

       7   through.

       8        Q    Now, you heard the testimony earlier about a

       9   supposed van which is off camera which is supposed to

      10   be stopped down here someplace waiting to turn in?

      11        A    There wasn't a van stopped.

      12        Q    Okay.

      13        A    Because I would have moved if there was.

      14        Q    Let me ask you about that.  Why would you

      15   have moved had a --

      16        A    That was part of the thing which is that we

      17   weren't supposed to block traffic or block people or

      18   things like that.

      19        Q    Okay.  When you approached the end of the

      20   driveway were you coming up here in order to talk to

      21   somebody or stand in the driveway?

      22        A    No, not at all.

      23        Q    Were you just passing --

      24        A    I was heading through, yes.

      25        Q    Okay.  We heard here about, I guess it was

.                                                                1086

       1   Officer Butterfield, the first witness who testified,

       2   talking about having talked to you five times on the

       3   first day of the injunction?

       4        A    Yes.

       5        Q    And did you talk to him several times?

       6        A    We dis speak several times.  Your Honor,

       7   what happened that day was that there actually was a

       8   bit of confusion as to which area across from the

       9   Coachman we could actually be in and the

      10   Scientologists kept coming over and saying I couldn't

      11   be here, I couldn't be here, so then the policeman and

      12   I, Officer Butterfield and I would talk and it was

      13   okay, you can be over here and then they would come

      14   and say, no, you can't be there and that's why it kept

      15   changing because of their -- and they finally said

      16   they owned that alley which I believe we both agreed

      17   they didn't own that alley, but it was --

      18        Q    Let me stop you right there so we all know

      19   what you're talking about.  If this is the Coachman

      20   Building, is this the alley that you're talking about

      21   here?

      22        A    Yes.

      23        Q    Okay.  And this is the back driveway to the

      24   Coachman parking lot?

      25        A    That's correct.

.                                                                1087

       1        Q    Okay.  And at one point Scientologists were

       2   claiming to own the alley?

       3        A    Definitely.

       4        Q    Okay.  Now, that alley actually goes all the

       5   way through the block, doesn't it?

       6        A    Right.

       7        Q    Or you can make a dog leg back here behind

       8   this building and come out on, I think it's Garden

       9   Street?

      10        A    That's right, and they normally bring their

      11   buses through the front way, but because we were there

      12   they started then bringing their buses through the

      13   back way and saying I couldn't be there because they

      14   were bringing their buses through.

      15        Q    Okay.

      16        A    And they owned the alley.  You see what

      17   happened there?

      18            THE COURT:  Uh-huh.

      19   BY MR. MERRETT:

      20        Q    Was there ever a time when Officer

      21   Butterfield or any other police officer asked you to

      22   do something or stop doing something that you declined

      23   to obey?

      24        A    Never.  I was in full agreement with the

      25   judge and the injunction and I was trying to do my

.                                                                1088

       1   best to with my full intention to do what they asked

       2   and what should be done.

       3        Q    What about when you had the discussion --

       4   you saw the -- you can see the film I guess it's from

       5   the spy camera on the Coachman Building of you talking

       6   to the redheaded female police officer?

       7        A    Right, yeah.

       8        Q    Did you do what she asked you then?

       9        A    I did.  I came walking down the street and

      10   she said I know you're not picketing, but because your

      11   signs are up it may look like you're picketing so you

      12   need to hold your signs down when you're walking to

      13   the Ft. Harrison, in which case I put the signs down.

      14        Q    You did at that point?

      15        A    Yes.

      16        Q    Okay.  Was there ever any time when you did

      17   anything which you believed to be contrary to the

      18   judge's order?

      19        A    I didn't.

      20        Q    So far as you are able to recall, have you

      21   done anything contrary to the injunction?

      22        A    I have not, not that I know of and I -- no,

      23   I haven't.

      24        Q    Okay.  Did you ever have any intention of

      25   not doing what the judge directed you to do?

.                                                                1089

       1        A    Never.

       2        Q    What got you started picketing?

       3        A    Well, basically there are is certain

       4   things -- my biggest thing has to the family and

       5   disconnection.  I don't believe that a family -- I

       6   believe that parents should be able to speak to their

       7   children no matter what is going on.

       8             I don't think a Church has a right to

       9   separate parents from their children and that is

      10   honestly why I was picketing, because I have met a

      11   number of families where they haven't been able to

      12   speak to their children for years and years and I

      13   cannot say it enough, if I can legally get this passed

      14   where they can't do that, I will.  I am so much

      15   against it.

      16        Q    Let me ask you this.  You heard Mr. Henson

      17   testify that he had a lengthy pow-wow with a high

      18   ranking policeman that led to his sticking to the

      19   orange zone's picketing; you remember that testimony?

      20        A    A little bit.

      21        Q    That he said the second time he talked to a

      22   policeman the policeman said here's what we're doing

      23   and that's what he did?

      24        A    Right.

      25        Q    Were you present?

.                                                                1090

       1        A    Uh-huh.

       2        Q    During that discussion?

       3        A    Yes, uh-huh.

       4        Q    Do you remember the policeman laying out

       5   here's what we're doing.  We're going to write police

       6   reports if you're not named and we may arrest you if

       7   you are named?

       8        A    Right.

       9        Q    After that did you ever see Mr. Henson

      10   picketing outside of an orange zone?

      11        A    No, he fully followed it.

      12            MR. MERRETT:  Okay.  If I can have just

      13       a second, Your Honor?

      14            MS. BEZAZIAN:  Can I explain one thing

      15       about Fair Game?

      16   BY MR. MERRETT:

      17        Q    What do you know about Fair Game?

      18        A    Basically --

      19            MR. POPE:  Same objection. Your Honor.

      20       It wasn't asked.  It's a volunteered

      21       statement on the part of the witness.  I

      22       object.

      23            MS. BEZAZIAN:  I'm asking to explain it

      24       to Your Honor.

      25            THE COURT:  Yes, ma'am.  Hold on.  I

.                                                                1091

       1       understand, ma'am, but, Mr. Merrett?

       2   BY MR. MERRETT:

       3        Q    Do you know what Fair Game is?

       4        A    Yes, sir.

       5        Q    What is it?

       6            THE COURT:  Objection noted for the

       7       record.  Overruled.

       8   BY MR. MERRETT:

       9        Q    What is it?

      10        A    Okay, Fair Game is a policy that was written

      11   by Mr. Hubbard years ago that says that they can lie,

      12   cheat, trick, do anything they want to to someone that

      13   they consider a bad person.  They're Fair Game.

      14             Now, literally and truly, last year at this

      15   time I would have given anyone in this courtroom

      16   $5,000 to say there is no Fair Game and that includes

      17   the young man in the back, you all over there and each

      18   one of you, because I honestly did not believe there

      19   was.  And now that I am out of the Church of

      20   Scientology I know that there is definitely Fair Game

      21   and that what happened to me was part of Fair Game.

      22        Q    Let me ask you something.  Is there a

      23   connection as part of the Fair Game Policy and the

      24   doctrines surrounding it between these two words?

      25        A    Yes.

.                                                                1092

       1            MR. POPE:  Your honor, this is --

       2            MS. BEZAZIAN:  -- there is.

       3            THE COURT:  Hold on.

       4            MR. POPE:  Objection.

       5            THE COURT:  Just a minute, just a

       6       minute, just a minute.  Hold on, hold on,

       7       hold on.

       8            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, this is --

       9            THE COURT:  Mr. Pope, hold on.  Okay,

      10       now I think it got quiet.  You're it.

      11            MR. POPE:  This implicates our motion in

      12       limine and the law that we set forth in

      13       there.  I don't know if now -- I mean, what

      14       she is testifying to right now doesn't prove

      15       or disprove a thing with regard to her

      16       compliance with this.

      17            Now, if the court insists on letting her

      18        do this, I think we need to argue this

      19        motion, the legal grounds that we set forth

      20        in the motion in limine.

      21            MR. MERRETT:  We would totally argue

      22       again it's grossly untimely.  This thing was

      23       supposed to over last Sunday.

      24            THE COURT:  Yeah.  Let's do this.

      25             (Whereupon, a pause in the proceedings took

.                                                                1093

       1        place.)

       2            Part of what this witness has talked

       3        about has come out during many of the

       4        proceeding hearings that I have had in this

       5        case, long before present counsel was even

       6        involved in this case for both sides.  I

       7        guess, the only less say corporate member

       8        would be Mr. Howie.  He's been here for a

       9        while.

      10            I heard a lot of this before.  Where

      11        we're going right now I think may be a

      12        little further out and a little deeper than

      13        we really need to go.

      14            Let's get back up here on the track and

      15        let's get back to the signs and the orange,

      16        out of the orange zone, up, down, and

      17        certainly as far as bias and prejudice is

      18        concerned, I understand.

      19            Now, that's all I'm going to say on

      20        this.

      21            MR. MERRETT:  Yes, sir.  Then as to this

      22       witness I have no further questions.

      23            THE COURT:  Mr. Howie, it's your

      24       witness, sir.

      25            MR. HOWIE:  No questions, Your Honor.

.                                                                1094

       1            THE COURT:  Thank you, Mr. Howie.

       2       Mr. Pope.

       3                     CROSS-EXAMINATION

       4   BY MR. POPE:

       5        Q    Thank you, Your Honor.  Ms. Bezazian, you

       6   testified I think that as you were being pursued

       7   across the country by these people after you decided

       8   to leave the Church and you landed in Tampa and five

       9   people came to meet you there; is that right?

      10        A    Well, actually it was eight.

      11        Q    Okay.

      12        A    Because there were five Scientologists and

      13   Mr. Minton and Stacy Brooks and Jesse Prince and two

      14   policeman.

      15        Q    Wasn't your husband among those?

      16        A    No.

      17        Q    Your husband wasn't there to meet you?

      18        A    No, sir.

      19        Q    All right.  Your husband is a Scientologist,

      20   correct?

      21        A    I really don't want to speak about my

      22   husband at this time.

      23        Q    Can you answer that question?

      24        A    I don't know, sir.  You've have to call him

      25   and ask him.

.                                                                1095

       1        Q    You don't know?

       2        A    No, sir, I don't know.

       3        Q    You and he are estranged now?

       4        A    Sir, if I went into what happened with my

       5   husband I really don't think you want to go there.

       6   Let's just leave it be for right now.

       7        Q    Ms. Bezazian?

       8        A    If you're talking importance, you're saying

       9   what a Fair Game isn't important when you --

      10        Q    Excuse me.

      11            THE COURT:  Wait a minute.  Hold on.

      12       Hold on.  Let's do this.  Let's do this.

      13       Attorneys approach the bench.

      14             (Thereupon, the following proceedings were

      15        had out of the presence of the audience:)

      16            THE COURT:  What I want to do, we're

      17       getting down to some key witnesses and I do

      18       understand that there are feelings here,

      19       strong both ways.

      20            What I'm going to do is ask -- I'm going

      21        to take a little break here and ask you to

      22        talk to the witness and I give you

      23        permission to talk to the witnesses on the

      24        stand and explain that when there is a

      25        question and answer the question and if

.                                                                1096

       1        there is a need for elaboration that you

       2        will have cross or redirect or something

       3        like that, but I think you all need to have

       4        a chance to object.

       5            Okay.  Now, I'm going to ask you all to

       6        talk to Mr. Minton.  I'm sure he's going to

       7        come up and maybe you can explain that him.

       8            We'll take a short break so you can talk

       9        to the witnesses, please.

      10            This will be a short break, but just try

      11        to talk to them and tell them to listen to

      12        the question, okay.

      13            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, I understand

      14       that.

      15            THE COURT:  But I'm concerned.  Talk to

      16       your clients.  Tell your people to stay calm.

      17            MR. POPE:  All right.

      18            THE COURT:  They may not like my

      19       rulings, but I do have maps to Lakeland.

      20            MR. POPE:  All right.

      21             (Thereupon, a short recess was taken, after

      22        which the proceedings continued.)

      23            THE COURT:  Let's try this.  Mr. Pope,

      24       go ahead, sir.

      25            MR. POPE:  May I approach the witness or

.                                                                1097

       1       hold it just a minute.  Let me just ask her a

       2       question?

       3            THE COURT:  Okay.

       4   BY MR. POPE:

       5        Q    I'm a little ahead of myself.  Ms. Bezazian,

       6   I wrote down something you said during your direct

       7   examination.  I think I got it accurately.  You said I

       8   was in full agreement with the judge and the

       9   injunction.  Do you remember saying that?

      10        A    Yes, sir.

      11        Q    And that's true, isn't it?

      12        A    Well, I was trying to do my best with it,

      13   even though I know what you're going to say, but I'm

      14   happy to explain it.

      15            MR. POPE:  All right.  Let me -- may I

      16       approach the witness?

      17            THE COURT:  Certainly, sir.

      18   BY MR. POPE:

      19        Q    Let me ask you to take a look at this, if

      20   you would?

      21             (Whereupon, documents were reviewed.)

      22        A    Which part of it?

      23        Q    All of it.  Start at the upper left had

      24   where is says MistMagoo 55?

      25        A    What is the date of this?

.                                                                1098

       1        Q    Well, it says on its face, December 6, 2000.

       2        A    All right.

       3        Q    Is MistMagoo 55 your internet ID?

       4        A    Yes, at AOL.Com.

       5        Q    At AOL.Com?

       6            THE COURT:  What is that?

       7            MS. BEZAZIAN:  My internet ID.

       8            THE COURT:  I understand that.  Spell

       9       it.

      10            MR. POPE:  M-I-S-T-M-A-G-O-O-5-5.

      11            THE COURT:  Okay.  MistMagoo55.

      12   BY MR. POPE:

      13        Q    And at the bottom is says Tory/Magoo, really

      14   dancing now?

      15        A    Uh-huh.

      16        Q    Was this a posting you made on the --

      17        A    Yes.

      18        Q    December 6, 2000?

      19        A    Uh-huh.

      20        Q    Take a look at paragraph eight?

      21        A    I see it.

      22        Q    Okay.

      23        A    Uh-huh.

      24        Q    Let me go with that with you?

      25        A    Sure.

.                                                                1099

       1        Q    Having the cult go through all this effort

       2   to get bunches of people, myself included, in this

       3   bogus injunction?

       4        A    Uh-huh.

       5        Q    Knowing they were hoping it would stop us as

       6   it gave limitations to where we could picket?

       7        A    Uh-huh.

       8        Q    The truth is we loved it.  It protects us,

       9   which is extremely important as they were getting

      10   quite violent, beating of BM a few months ago.  It

      11   didn't stop re stopping us.  We were everywhere and

      12   that was great to see?

      13        A    It was.

      14        Q    And that's the bogus injunction you have

      15   described?

      16        A    Is there something I can answer on this?

      17        Q    You described that as a bogus injunction?

      18        A    No, sir.  I want to explain that.

      19        Q    Let me ask you one more question.  Do you

      20   remember when you were standing on the south side of

      21   Pierce Street with the megaphone yelling into the

      22   Scientology premises there?

      23        A    Uh-huh.

      24        Q    You called it a stupid injunction, then,

      25   didn't you?

.                                                                1100

       1        A    I did, but there was a reason I said that,

       2   sir.

       3        Q    Well, if you would like to tell us why it's

       4   bogus and stupid, please tell us?

       5        A    I really would and I think you would be

       6   interested in it.  When I left the Church of

       7   Scientology I actually called OSA in four different

       8   times in the evening.

       9             Having been a Scientologist for 30 years at

      10   the top of the bridge, highly trained, having spent

      11   over $100,000 getting there, I felt I was owed a

      12   little bit of respect from my Church to try to help

      13   handle the situation regarding the critics and

      14   Scientology and the upset that was going on.  And I

      15   called OSA in and I said I want to talk to Mike Render

      16   who is one of head the of OSA or at least he's way up

      17   there as an executive, and Ray Mindoff who I felt was

      18   the technical terminal who could help out.  And I

      19   wanted to get together and have a round table -- are

      20   you listening, sir?

      21        Q    Yes.

      22        A    And have a round table talk --

      23            THE COURT:  What's important,

      24       Ms. Bezazian, is not so much whether he's

      25       listening, but I am.

.                                                                1101

       1            MS. BEZAZIAN:  Good.

       2            THE COURT:  So that we know who's in

       3       charge.

       4            MS. BEZAZIAN:  Thank you, sir.  So I

       5       wanted to have a round table talk between the

       6       critics and the Church of Scientology and

       7       they never once called me back.  So I felt

       8       this injunction was bogus in that they are a

       9       group that is always promoting the can handle

      10       things with communication and together

      11       communication is the universal solvent and I

      12       felt they had wasted the judge's time and

      13       energy having to pull in a court judge to

      14       make a ruling on where we could stand versus

      15       a Church that is a supposed to be good at

      16       communication, just sitting down working out

      17       some basic rules that everyone would be happy

      18       with and that's why I said it was bogus.

      19            Not that the injunction is, but the fact

      20        that they had to bother a judge to get these

      21        rulings happening, that I felt was.

      22            Now, granted I wasn't at the original

      23        hearings, so I didn't hear what all went

      24        with that and perhaps that was my own

      25        ignorance.

.                                                                1102

       1   BY MR. POPE:

       2        Q    And speaking of the injunction in paragraph

       3   eight you said it didn't work at all.  We were

       4   everywhere and that was great to see?

       5        A    Well, Church of Scientology stopping people

       6   from communicating didn't work at all, no.  They did

       7   communicate and it worked very well and I was very

       8   happy with the injunction in that sense.

       9        Q    And Officer Butterfield, when he conferred

      10   with you those several times that you heard him

      11   testify about, you did discuss that all you had to do

      12   was put your picket sign down, did you?

      13        A    No, sir, we did not.  We actually discussed

      14   locations on where I could talk.  The officer that I

      15   talked about where I to put my signs down was the

      16   lady.

      17        Q    So Officer Butterfield never told you --

      18        A    I'm not saying he did or not.  I don't

      19   remember, but I'm saying if he did, the main things he

      20   and I discussed were location.

      21        Q    So, what -- if I heard you correctly, you

      22   can't remember if Officer Butterfield told you to put

      23   the sign down; is this right?

      24        A    I'm not sure.  Honestly, I'm not.  The main

      25   thing that we discussed was which locations I could

.                                                                1103

       1   stand in.

       2        Q    And you did hear him say from that very

       3   chair that he in fact discussed that with you.  You

       4   heard him say that, didn't you?

       5        A    I don't remember honestly.

       6        Q    Okay.  And you don't deny that you've walked

       7   the entire length of the Bank of Clearwater Building

       8   with the two picket signs up?

       9        A    No, sir.

      10        Q    You saw --

      11        A    I explained that.  As soon as I ran into the

      12   policewoman who said put them down, I put them down

      13   and I was traveling to a place where I was going to

      14   picket.  I was not picketing.

      15        Q    And the policewoman who was the second

      16   police officer you had discussed picketing with, the

      17   first being Officer Butterfield, correct?

      18        A    I'm not sure which was first or second, sir.

      19        Q    You indicated that you thought that

      20   Ms. Brooks gave you a thousand dollars; is that right?

      21   Is that your testimony about financial --

      22        A    That's correct.

      23        Q    Is that the only money you've received from

      24   Ms. Brooks?

      25        A    No.

.                                                                1104

       1        Q    Tell me -- let's hear about the money you've

       2   received in Ms. Brooks or the LMT or Mr. Minton?

       3        A    What is the relevance of that.  I don't get

       4   it.

       5            MR. POPE:  Your Honor.

       6            MS. BEZAZIAN:  All right.  I'm sorry,

       7       she gave me $300 more and that's it.  That's

       8       all.  One time last where $1,000 and then she

       9       gave me $300 later.

      10   BY MR. POPE:

      11        Q    And was that her personal money or was the

      12   LMT money?

      13        A    You'll have to ask her.

      14        Q    How about payment of expenses such as air

      15   fare and that sort of thing.  Have they done that for

      16   you?

      17        A    Yes, sir.

      18        Q    In addition to cash money?

      19        A    Yes, sir.

      20        Q    How many dollars worth of expenses have they

      21   paid for you?

      22        A    That I don't know.

      23        Q    Who is paying it?

      24        A    As s far as what?

      25        Q    Is LMT paying it?

.                                                                1105

       1        A    You know, I can't honestly and I'm not

       2   trying to be tricky it.  I really don't know.  I've

       3   talked to Stacy Brooks and she said, listen, you can

       4   come stay with us.  I'm doing this because when I left

       5   the Church of Scientology no one would help me.  I'm

       6   happy to help you, so she gave me a ticket.  Whether

       7   that was paid by a check from LMT or by Stacy herself,

       8   I don't know.

       9        Q    So, while you're in Clearwater are you

      10   residing with Ms. Brooks?

      11        A    No.

      12        Q    No.  Where are you staying?

      13        A    I'm staying with Heather.

      14        Q    Okay.  And is anybody -- who's paying for

      15   that?

      16        A    Who's paying for Heather?

      17        Q    Who's paying for your room?

      18        A    No one.

      19        Q    No one?

      20        A    I mean, you know, I don't have a financial

      21   arrangement on that where I know, i know that some

      22   friends are letting me stay at their place.  That's

      23   what's happening.

      24        Q    And when you say Heather, you mean Heather

      25   Bennett?

.                                                                1106

       1        A    Uh-huh.

       2        Q    And what is her position with the LMT?

       3        A    She is, I believe she is working with the

       4   web page.

       5        Q    Okay.  Is she an employee of the LMT?

       6        A    She is.

       7        Q    Okay.  Now, as I understand it, you said

       8   that you had been declared; is that right?

       9        A    Yes, sir.

      10        Q    And it sounded to me, the way you described

      11   it, like it might be what the Amish call shunning; is

      12   that what it is?

      13        A    That's how it feels when no one will talk to

      14   you after 30 years of friendship.  It does feel a bit

      15   like shunning.

      16        Q    Okay.  Are you familiar at all with the

      17   Roman Catholic practice of excommunication?

      18        A    I've heard of.  I was a Catholic.  I've

      19   never seen anything like this happen in a Catholic

      20   church, ever.

      21        Q    Okay.  Have you ever been excommunicated?

      22        A    No, sir, I have not and I have known people

      23   who were and they were never treated like this.

      24        Q    As I understand it, I was trying to

      25   understand what you did on the internet back in

.                                                                1107

       1   California.  You did research on internet; is that

       2   right?

       3        A    I basically poked around on the internet

       4   looking for upper level materials.

       5        Q    You were doing research on the internet,

       6   correct?

       7        A    If you want to call it research, that's what

       8   it is.  It was looking around for upper level

       9   materials.

      10            MR. POPE:  May I have a moment, Your

      11       Honor?

      12            THE COURT:  You can have it.

      13             (Whereupon, a pause in the proceedings took

      14        place.)

      15   BY MR. POPE:

      16        Q    Ms. Bezazian, I overlooked asking you the

      17   questions about the driveway of the Coachman Building.

      18   As to that, you were a party it this and you got a

      19   copy of injunction, didn't you?

      20        A    I had seen the injunction.

      21        Q    Did you read it over?

      22        A    Yes, sir.

      23        Q    Okay.  Did you read that part of it that

      24   says stay ten feet back from the entranceways?

      25        A    Yes.

.                                                                1108

       1        Q    All right, and the video does show you,

       2   right, picketing right in the middle of that --

       3        A    No, sir.

       4        Q    -- area of the picket, does it not?

       5        A    I'm not picketing.  I was walking from one

       6   location to another and a car stopped me.

       7        Q    And your picket was up, was it not?

       8        A    Pardon me?

       9        Q    Your picket was up?

      10        A    Yeah, just like my signed were up as I was

      11   walking.

      12        Q    Okay.  And what's the difference between

      13   your signs being up and walking and picketing?

      14        A    Picketing is usually back and forth from one

      15   location on front of it.  You go back and you go forth

      16   and go and forth.  Transportation is from one location

      17   to another.

      18        Q    In your view picketing involves a pendulum

      19   type movement, right?

      20        A    Sure, yeah.

      21        Q    If you're just walking a straight line,

      22   that's not picketing?

      23        A    Well, have you have to travel in Clearwater

      24   from one location to another.  The Lisa McPherson

      25   Trust to the Ft. Harrison you have to travel along an

.                                                                1109

       1   area to get to it.

       2        Q    Let me ask you this question.  Where is it,

       3   what is the address of Ms. Bennett's --

       4        A    33 North Ft. Harrison.

       5        Q    So she lives at 33 North Harrison; in the

       6   Lisa McPherson Trust Building?

       7        A    Upstairs.

       8        Q    There is an apartment up there?

       9        A    Uh-huh.

      10        Q    And that's where you're staying?

      11        A    Yes, sir.

      12        Q    All right.  And I asked you about money from

      13   the LMT but I failed to ask you whether you had gotten

      14   any payments from Mr. Minton.  Have you?

      15        A    No, sir.

      16            MR. POPE:  All right.  Thank you.

      17            THE COURT:  Thank you, Mr. Pope.

      18       Mr. Merrett.

      19            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, did I offer into

      20       evidence that piece?  I may have overlooked

      21       that.  May I offer that into evidence?

      22            MS. BEZAZIAN:  Sure.

      23            THE COURT:  Thank you.

      24            MS. BEZAZIAN:  You're welcome.

      25            THE COURT:  Objections.

.                                                                1110

       1            MR. MERRETT:  No, Your Honor.

       2            MR. HOWIE:  No, Your Honor.

       3            THE COURT:  Okay.  Mr. Merrett, go

       4       ahead, sir.

       5                    REDIRECT EXAMINATION

       6   BY MR. MERRETT:

       7        Q    Thank you.  Ma'am, I want to start off first

       8   with the issue about you being declared.  Was the

       9   reason that you were declared your association with

      10   the Lisa McPherson Trust?

      11        A    Well, part of it was, yes.

      12        Q    And your association with Mr. Minton?

      13        A    Part of it was stated that I was connected

      14   to them.

      15        Q    Okay.  So, we know that as far as

      16   Scientologists are concerned, association with the

      17   Lisa McPherson Trust or Mr. Minton or Ms. Brooks makes

      18   you an untouchable, right?

      19        A    Well, it's definitely part of the declare.

      20        Q    Okay.  Now, with regard to the internet

      21   posting that was put in there, I want to talk to you

      22   about some of the things that you say there, the one

      23   that was just received in evidence.

      24             You say in paragraph one that you are free

      25   to say whatever you want to say and feel and not in

.                                                                1111

       1   worry about ethics?

       2            THE COURT:  Just a minute.  Let me give

       3       this to her.

       4            MS. BEZAZIAN:  Thank you, sir.

       5            THE COURT:  Go ahead, sir.

       6   BY MR. MERRETT:

       7        Q    In paragraph one you say I'm out of

       8   Scientology and was on this side free to say whatever

       9   I want to say and feel and not worry about ethics or

      10   getting declared.  I am declared.  What do you mean

      11   not worry about ethics.

      12        A    Well, for years -- I have a condition called

      13   epilepsy and in Scientology if have you have an

      14   illness they consider there is something wrong with

      15   you and they call it Potential Trouble Source.

      16        Q    PTS?

      17        A    PTS.

      18        Q    Lisa McPherson was a PTS type three, right?

      19        A    Yes, they declared her that.

      20        Q    Okay.

      21        A    For 30 years they were always trying to say

      22   that I was PTS and needed handling and finally I'm

      23   declared.  I was an SD, which is the worst thing, so

      24   it was sort of, all right, fine, I'm not PTS.  I'm an

      25   SD.

.                                                                1112

       1        Q    Let me ask you this.  Was Scientology

       2   treating your epilepsy or dealing with your epilepsy

       3   as am ethical problem on your part?

       4            MR. POPE:  Excuse me, Your Honor.  It

       5       seems, that question has no probative value

       6       of any issue in the case.

       7            MR. MERRETT:  But Your Honor, we have a

       8       document in evidence that we need to explain.

       9            THE COURT:  Proceed.

      10            MS. BEZAZIAN:  Yes.

      11   BY MR. MERRETT:

      12        Q    Was Scientology treating your epilepsy as an

      13   ethical lapse on your part?

      14        A    Well, PTSness is part of ethics, so in that

      15   sense, yes.

      16        Q    Okay.  Now, paragraph three you mention

      17   something about BM's head on a pipe.  What is that?

      18        A    Oh, he was carrying a sign that said no OTs

      19   there and it had a stick and at the end was a head of

      20   David Miscavige and he has an expression your head

      21   is -- Hubbard had an expression your head is on the

      22   pipe, meaning, I believe it's that you're in trouble.

      23        Q    Okay, and I assume this was actually a

      24   depiction of Mr. Miscavige?

      25        A    It was a photographer, yes.

.                                                                1113

       1        Q    Okay.  So --

       2        A    It was a picketing sign.

       3        Q    Okay.  Now, in paragraph eight about the

       4   middle you say with regard to the injunction that

       5   truth is we loved it.

       6        A    Uh-huh.

       7        Q    Was that the consensus of the people that

       8   you were picketing with regarding the injunction?

       9        A    We all were very happy with it because it

      10   did create some safety boundaries for all of us.

      11        Q    Were you present during some of the

      12   picketing back in July of 2000 when the mobs of

      13   Scientologists turn up and milled around?

      14        A    I was.

      15        Q    Okay.  And I take it this was a pleasant

      16   improvement over that?

      17        A    This was a great improvement over that and I

      18   was extremely embarrassed earlier seeing how they

      19   acted and knowing that I probably would have been one

      20   if them.  It was a definite improvement, yes.

      21        Q    Okay.  And again to reiterate, Mr. Pope

      22   asked you about your dealings with Officer

      23   Butterfield.

      24             Was there ever a time when a police officer

      25   told you or asked you to do something that you didn't

.                                                                1114

       1   do it?

       2        A    No.

       3            MR. MERRETT:  Okay.  I don't have

       4       anything further.

       5            THE COURT:  Let me just go back to

       6       something.  What were the acronyms you were

       7       using?  PTS; is that right.

       8            MS. BEZAZIAN:  Yes.

       9            THE COURT:  What does that mean?

      10            MS. BEZAZIAN:  Potential Trouble Source.

      11            THE COURT:  Okay.  All right.

      12       Mr. Howie.

      13            MR. HOWIE:  Your Honor, I have no

      14       questions.

      15            THE COURT:  Mr. Pope.

      16            MR. POPE:  No further questions, Your

      17       Honor.

      18            THE COURT:  Ma'am, you may step down and

      19       have a seat back out there.

      20            Attorneys, approach the bench

      21        momentarily.  I don't need the court

      22        reporter.  Just attorneys real quick.

      23             (Discussion was had off the record.)

      24            Let's take a break.  We'll take about a

      25        20 minute break right now and we'll come and

.                                                                1115

       1        we'll get going with the rest of them.

       2        Thank you all.

       3             (A short recess took place after which the

       4        proceedings continued.)

       5            THE COURT:  Mr. Merrett, call your next

       6       witness.

       7            MR. MERRETT:  Yes, Your Honor.  Actually

       8       at this point I would be asking the court to

       9       take judicial notice of some judicial

      10       determinations regarding one of the parties

      11       to this case and if I ask Mr. Oliver to come

      12       up and ask me to help pass these over.

      13            The first is the opinion of the Ninth

      14        Circuit Court of Appeals in Religious

      15        Technology Center versus Scott.  It is found

      16        at 1996 U.S. at Lexis 8954. I do not have a

      17        standard reporter's cite, however I have

      18        furnished a copy of the opinion.

      19            On the third page of the opinion that

      20        you have before you when respect to RTC, the

      21        Religious Technology Center.

      22            MR. POPE:  Excuse me, Your Honor, before

      23       he goes into this can I point out a couple

      24       things?  First, this is an unpublished

      25       opinion of the Ninth Circuit.  If you see up

.                                                                1116

       1       at the top it says notice on the front page

       2       right under the date, Rules of the Federal

       3       Circuit Court of Appeals may limit citations

       4       of unpublished opinions.  Please refers to

       5       rules of the United States Court of Appeals

       6       for this circuit.

       7            It seems to me that we need to have

       8        those rules here as to whether anybody is

       9        going to rely on this and secondly, Church

      10        of Scientology Flag Service Organization is

      11        not a party to this action.

      12            THE COURT:  Mr. Merrett.

      13            MR. MERRETT:  Well, Your Honor, two

      14       points.  The notation there is of course

      15       fairly routine and deals with rules regarding

      16       use if this were for precedential value in

      17       the, within the Ninth Circuit.  Otherwise it

      18       is entirely available to you and again as

      19       Mr. Pope so eloquently pointed yesterday in

      20       response to my objection regarding RTC versus

      21       Ward, RTC and Scientology are essentially the

      22       same thing.

      23            THE COURT:  Why are you asking me to

      24       take judicial notice of that?

      25            MR. MERRETT:  Well, there are findings

.                                                                1117

       1       with regard to the litigation practice,

       2       approach and the dealings of Scientology with

       3       its critics made in this opinion.

       4            MR. POPE:  In the first place, I wish to

       5       point out that the statement that Mr. Merrett

       6       has attributed to me, I said that RTC was a

       7       separate nonprofit corporation, but it was

       8       related to the Church of Scientology.  I

       9       didn't say they were the same thing.

      10            MR. MERRETT:  I would simply point out

      11       that Mr. Pope was quite insistent there was

      12       sufficient identification --

      13            THE COURT:  Let me ask you something.

      14       This is an opinion of a federal court?

      15            MR. MERRETT:  Yes, sir.

      16            THE COURT:  It's been published?

      17            MR. MERRETT:  It is not published in the

      18       Reporter.  It is however published through

      19       the computer reporting services, through

      20       Lexis and West Law.

      21            THE COURT:  Which was an opinion

      22       actually entered in a federal case?

      23            MR. MERRETT:  Yes, sir.

      24            THE COURT:  All right.  I'll take

      25       judicial notice of it.

.                                                                1118

       1            MR. MERRETT:  If you would, Your Honor,

       2       just note for the what I'm citing to you

       3       specifically.  If you look at the sixth page

       4       of the copy of the opinion that you have

       5       there referring here to an award of attorney

       6       fees against RTC.

       7            MR. POPE:  Objection, Your Honor, on the

       8       basis that the court has already ruled, as I

       9       understood it with our last to the witness

      10       before that, that we're supposed to be

      11       sticking to the factual issues regarding the

      12       breach of the injunction, that the whole

      13       business of litigation tactics and that sort

      14       of stuff was familiar to the court, that it

      15       has been presented to you back before

      16       Mr. Merrett or even I got into the case.

      17            THE COURT:  Right.

      18            MR. POPE:  We're dealing now with an

      19       injunction and whether it should be violated

      20       and this opinion is just one more effort to

      21       revisit and regrind that same coin.

      22            THE COURT:  He can put it in.  I'm just

      23       going to press on.  I'll give it the weight I

      24       feel it deserves.

      25            MR. MERRETT:  Thank you, Your Honor.

.                                                                1119

       1       Essentially there was a finding that

       2       RTC --

       3            MR. POPE:  Excuse me, Your Honor.  I

       4       thought you told him to press on.

       5            THE COURT:  Yes.  In other words, it's

       6       in.  I'll take judicial notice.  The judge

       7       made a ruling.

       8            I've already told you that I'm aware of

       9        what you're trying to get in.  I heard this

      10        before and let's -- I'll let you build your

      11        record, but go ahead.

      12            MR. MERRETT:  The next one is Church of

      13       Scientology in California versus Department

      14       of State.

      15            THE COURT:  Same everything?

      16            MR. MERRETT:  Pretty much, except it

      17       specifically adverts to the Fair Game Policy

      18       and abuse of its opponents.

      19            MR. POPE:  Same objection, Your Honor.

      20            THE COURT:  Same everything.  Same

      21       ruling, same continuing objections and all

      22       that.

      23            MR. MERRETT:  The third is In Re: B and

      24       G Wards, an opinion by Justice Lady of the

      25       Royal Courts of Justice in London from 1984.

.                                                                1120

       1            MS. KOBRIN:  London?

       2            MR. MERRETT:  It's making specific

       3       findings regarding Scientology and its

       4       practices as regards to those who oppose it.

       5            MR. POPE:  Objection, Your Honor, on the

       6       basis that there is nothing really here

       7       whatever to identify this.  This is a typed

       8       up sheet.  We don't know what it is, where it

       9       came from.  It's apparently from a foreign

      10       court.  We have no means of authenticating

      11       this at all and I object to it.

      12            THE COURT:  Mr. Merrett, this -- when I

      13       look at this quickly here, I'm going to need

      14       something better than this.

      15            MR. MERRETT:  Yes, sir.  Here's the -- I

      16       only have one copy.  It's the appellate

      17       opinion upholding Justice Lady's finding that

      18       Scientology lies whenever it is convenient.

      19            THE COURT:  Slow down.

      20            MR. POPE:  Objection and move to strike

      21       on the basis that that's his comment with

      22       regard to -- unsupported comment with

      23       respect --

      24            THE COURT:  Wait a minute.  I

      25       understand.  Take a look at it and see

.                                                                1121

       1       whatever it is.  Take a minute and look at it

       2       now.  Look at it.

       3             (Whereupon, documents were reviewed.)

       4            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, it appears to be

       5       some form on internet printout.  It doesn't

       6       have anymore authenticity than the last sheet

       7       that he gave you so we object to that on the

       8       basis that it's a --

       9            THE COURT:  It's a what.

      10            MR. POPE:  My recollection is that it's

      11       a foreign something or other, legal document

      12       and you can't just come in and ask a court to

      13       take judicial notice of foreign law.

      14            THE COURT:  Okay.  It's been a long

      15       week.  I don't see enough there to

      16       authenticate that in any way.  Anything else

      17       that's a little closer to what we like here

      18       in the states?

      19            MR. MERRETT:  Yes, sir, Church of

      20       Scientology versus Wallerscheim which is

      21       found at 42 Cal, App. 4628, 1996 opinion from

      22       the California Second Appellate District.

      23            MR. POPE:  Same objection.  It doesn't

      24       involve Church of Scientology Flag Service

      25       Organization of Florida.  It's submitted for

.                                                                1122

       1       the same improper purpose.

       2            MR. MERRETT:  And last --

       3            THE COURT:  Now, let's -- slow down

       4       here.  Nice try.  You're ruling is going to

       5       be the same, right?

       6            MR. MERRETT:  Yes, sir.

       7            THE COURT:  Not ruling, your argument.

       8            MR. MERRETT:  I'll rule if you like,

       9       Your Honor.  My argument would be the same.

      10            THE COURT:  Yeah, I know.  Don't mess up

      11       my case for me, judge.  Okay.  My rulings

      12       will be the same and go ahead with the next

      13       one.

      14            MR. MERRETT:  The last one is Allard

      15       versus Church of Scientology.  That is

      16       another California case, 58 Cal. App. Third,

      17       439, Second Appellate District, 1976.

      18            Again, specifically referring to the

      19        Fair Game policy as directed to suppressive

      20        persons and enemies of Scientology.

      21            MR. POPE:  Objection on the basis that

      22       is does not involve the petitioner in this

      23       matter.  It is a 24, 25 year old case and

      24       it's submitted for the same relevant purpose

      25       the court has heretofore noted.

.                                                                1123

       1            THE COURT:  Okay, and Mr. Merrett is

       2       making the same argument and same ruling.

       3       Continued objection so noted.

       4            What else?

       5            MR. MERRETT:  Call Arnaldo Lerma.

       6   Thereupon:

       7                       ARNALDO LERMA

       8   was called as a witness and having been duly sworn, was

       9   examined and testified as follows:

      10                     DIRECT EXAMINATION

      11   BY MR. MERRETT:

      12        Q    Mr. Lerma, where do you live?

      13        A    Arlington, Virginia.

      14        Q    How long have you lived there?

      15        A    Since 1978.

      16        Q    Have you ever been a member of Scientology?

      17        A    Yes, sir.

      18        Q    From when to when?

      19        A    From approximately 1966 to 1978.

      20        Q    And have you gone back into Scientology

      21   since 1978?

      22        A    I briefly had some opportunity in 1992.

      23        Q    Since that have you had any approaches to or

      24   from Scientology?

      25        A    In the summer of 1995 on August 12

.                                                                1124

       1   Ms. Kobrin came to my house with a Writ of Search and

       2   Seizure after convincing a U.S. federal judge that I

       3   was in possession of stolen property.

       4        Q    What was the property that you had?

       5        A    It was a copy of an unsealed public court

       6   record from the Central District of California.

       7        Q    And was there any litigation as a result of

       8   that?

       9        A    Considerable litigation.

      10        Q    Did you --

      11            MR. POPE:  Objection, Your Honor.  This

      12       is a matter that has absolutely nothing to do

      13       with the issue before the court as to whether

      14       Mr. Lerma has or has not violated the terms

      15       of the injunction.

      16            This event occurred long before this

      17        injunction.  It's part of the old these are

      18        bad guys, they play hardball in court

      19        defense, which you have already indicated

      20        you're not that interested in hearing.

      21            THE COURT:  What do you say,

      22       Mr. Merrett, sir?

      23            MR. MERRETT:  There was actually another

      24       question pending which Mr. Pope has not had

      25       the benefit of having heard again.

.                                                                1125

       1            THE COURT:  Let's hear the question.

       2   BY MR. MERRETT:

       3        Q    Have you since then been involved in

       4   protesting against Scientology?

       5        A    Yes, sir.

       6        Q    And were you in Clearwater, Florida

       7   picketing against Scientology or picketing about

       8   Scientology over the first weekend of December, 2000?

       9        A    Yes, I was.

      10        Q    When did you arrive in town approximately?

      11        A    About five days before the picket.

      12        Q    And when you say before the picket, what do

      13   you mean?

      14        A    Before we actually started picketing them.

      15        Q    Okay.  Are you aware of the events on the

      16   day, I guess it was January -- not January.  Wait, I

      17   guess it is.  South of the Coachman Building, you,

      18   Mr. Enerson, Mr. Minton and Ms. Gogolla; you recall

      19   those events?

      20        A    I recall that day.

      21        Q    Okay.  Were you there?

      22        A    Yes, I was.

      23        Q    Where you picketing?

      24        A    Yes, I was.

      25        Q    And were you at all times in an orange zone

.                                                                1126

       1   when you were south of the Coachman Building?

       2        A    That's correct.

       3        Q    Did you ever go off the sidewalk?

       4        A    No, sir.

       5        Q    Is this the area in which you were

       6   picketing?

       7        A    That is correct.

       8        Q    Now, when you say picketing, what do you

       9   mean?

      10        A    I mean carrying a sign and using a megaphone

      11   to saying no OTs there.

      12        Q    What --

      13            THE COURT:  Say what?

      14            MR. LERMA:  No OTs there.

      15   BY MR. MERRETT:

      16        Q    What does that mean?

      17        A    The Scientologists that are sitting in this

      18   courtroom have a belief that if they do everything

      19   they are told as directed by L. Rob Hubbard, at some

      20   point they will gain amazing spiritual abilities?

      21        Q    Well, what kind of abilities?

      22        A    Well, perhaps you can kill with a thought.

      23        Q    Is that something that Hubbard promised?

      24        A    Well, Hubbard didn't --

      25            MR. POPE:  Objection.  Your Honor, we're

.                                                                1127

       1       getting into all sorts of religious doctrine

       2       here that doesn't have anything to do with an

       3       issue before the court.

       4            THE COURT:  Well, the court kind of

       5       drove it out there because to hear what

       6       picketing, what they were chanting and as it

       7       or wasn't it really picket or was it taunting

       8       or what.  I'm going to allow it to see what

       9       this is all about.  Go ahead.

      10   BY MR. MERRETT:

      11        Q    What other powers other than killing with a

      12   thought?

      13        A    They should be able to telepathically read

      14   your mind, to leave you body and see what's happening.

      15        Q    Is that called exteriorization with full

      16   perception?

      17        A    Yes, it is.

      18        Q    Did you pursue or get to the OT levels in

      19   Scientology yourself?

      20        A    I got to the OT level 3, the story of Xenu

      21   and the space cooties.

      22        Q    And did you develop those powers?

      23        A    No, not there, no.

      24        Q    Okay.  Let me ask you, as far as when you

      25   were picketing in this area, how long did you picket?

.                                                                1128

       1        A    On which day?

       2        Q    The day which you have the remaining charge?

       3        A    Perhaps an hour.

       4        Q    Okay.

       5        A    On that one occasion.

       6        Q    During that hour did you remain on this

       7   sidewalk down here?

       8        A    Yes, I did.

       9        Q    Did there come a time when you went around

      10   the corner and headed north on Ft. Harrison?

      11        A    When we concluded picketing for the day.

      12        Q    Okay.  And did you in fact cross the

      13   driveway here?

      14        A    Yes.

      15        Q    Okay.  Were you picketing when you crossed

      16   the driveway?

      17        A    No.

      18        Q    What is the difference between what you were

      19   doing on the sidewalk south of the Coachman Building

      20   and what you were doing when you were walking north

      21   along Ft. Harrison Avenue?  I mean why is one

      22   picketing and the other one is not?

      23        A    Well, the one at the south side of the

      24   Coachman Building we were actively trying to get the

      25   attention of the Scientologists walking back and forth

.                                                                1129

       1   and trying to get ideas across to them.

       2        Q    What were you doing as you crossed the

       3   driveway?

       4        A    Trying to get back to LMT.

       5        Q    Did any of you stop in the driveway?

       6        A    No.

       7        Q    Did any of you either make a circuit within

       8   the driveway or at any time make a circuit the

       9   included the driveway in picketing?

      10        A    No, we did not.

      11        Q    Okay.  Was it your intention to be

      12   communicating anything to anybody as you crossed the

      13   driveway?

      14        A    No, my intention was to cross the driveway.

      15        Q    And, if I understand correctly on either

      16   side of driveway, these are, not withstanding my black

      17   crayon, orange zones; is that right?

      18        A    Right.

      19        Q    And were you in transit from one orange zone

      20   to another?

      21        A    Yes.

      22        Q    Okay.  Had you reviewed the injunction?

      23        A    Briefly, but I was relying on the judgment

      24   of others at that point and keeping track of which

      25   zone was where was fairly extensive.

.                                                                1130

       1        Q    Okay.  As far as you know, once the

       2   injunction had been entered or since the injunction

       3   was entered has there been any time that you have

       4   engaged in protesting activities or First Amendment

       5   activities in an area depicted on the diagrams

       6   attached to the injunction which was not in an orange

       7   zone?

       8        A    It was always in an orange zone.

       9        Q    Okay.  Was it ever your intention to picket

      10   on demonstrate any place where the judge told you not

      11   to by issuing the injunction?

      12        A    No.  Absolutely, no.  It would seem like,

      13   you know, you had more marked areas that we could

      14   picket in.  I know Scientology's penchant for

      15   fabrication of felonies.

      16        Q    And for that reason were you careful to do

      17   all of your First Amendment stuff inside the orange

      18   zone?

      19        A    I was extraordinarily careful knowing the

      20   character of my adversaries.

      21        Q    Did you ever, during any of this, come

      22   within ten feet of a Scientologist that you know of?

      23        A    Not that I know of.

      24        Q    Okay.  Do you recall Mr. Minton at one point

      25   using the Threep to prevent a Scientologist from

.                                                                1131

       1   encroaching within ten feet of you all as you passed

       2   that way?

       3        A    I think during that incident I was a little

       4   bit around the corner.

       5        Q    Okay.

       6        A    All right.

       7        Q    Do you recall him making that use of the

       8   Threep?

       9        A    I recall him extending the Threep with the

      10   injunction on it.

      11            MR. MERRETT:  Okay.  May I have a

      12       second, Your Honor?

      13            THE COURT:  You may.

      14             (Whereupon, a pause in the proceedings took

      15        place.)

      16            MR. MERRETT:  Your Honor, I would ask

      17       the court to help me a bit here.  I've

      18       mislaid my notation on your JOA ruling.

      19            I believe that's the only incident with

      20        which he is charged that remains alive?  I

      21        think that's January 6.

      22            MR. POPE:  I believe he's correct on

      23       that, Your Honor.

      24            THE COURT:  Yeah.  That's the one where

      25       Minton, Enerson, Lerma and Gogolla in

.                                                                1132

       1       transit.

       2   BY MR. MERRETT:

       3        Q    Did that also include Ms. Gogolla?  Did you

       4   go where she went?

       5        A    Yes, we were all together.

       6        Q    And I think I asked you, did any of you make

       7   a circuit through the driveway back and forth or stop

       8   in the driveway?

       9        A    Absolutely not.  We were avoiding anything

      10   that could be construed as a violation of the

      11   injunction.

      12        Q    Okay.  Did you find -- let me ask you this.

      13   Since then I assume you've had an opportunity to

      14   actually sit down and read the injunction, correct?

      15        A    In actual fact, I have not read the entire

      16   injunction.

      17        Q    Let me ask you this.  Had you done all your

      18   picketing in the company of people who have?

      19        A    Absolutely.

      20        Q    And so far as you know have you always been

      21   in orange zones except where you had to transit

      22   through somewhere else to get to an orange zone?

      23        A    Absolutely.

      24        Q    Okay.  The January 7, the night after this

      25   when Mr. Minton was engaged in the confrontation with

.                                                                1133

       1   the police, you were out there on Watterson Street,

       2   right?

       3        A    Yes.

       4        Q    Were there any Scientologists getting on and

       5   off the buses at that time?

       6        A    Not that I recall.

       7        Q    Okay.  Did you see any that you recall other

       8   than Mr. Avila and whoever the other security man may

       9   have been?

      10        A    Perhaps two people by the door.

      11        Q    Okay.  But that would have been on the west

      12   side of Watterson?

      13        A    On the west side.

      14        Q    Did you ever see Mr. Minton get within ten

      15   feet of any Scientologist?

      16        A    Except where -- I mean, Mr. Minton did not

      17   approach any Scientologist within ten feet, but during

      18   the videoing, during the actual incident I believe

      19   that Antonio may have gotten that close on the other

      20   side, but he was on the other side of me.

      21            MR. MERRETT:  Okay.  I have nothing

      22       further of this witness.

      23            THE COURT:  Mr. Howie.



.                                                                1134

       1                     DIRECT EXAMINATION

       2   BY MR. HOWIE:

       3        Q    Mr. Lerma, during this incident on

       4   January 7, how close were you standing to Mr. Minton

       5   at the time he was talking to police officers?

       6        A    40 inches.

       7        Q    Where were you exactly when you saw that?

       8        A    I have standing on the curb facing

       9   northwest.

      10        Q    Okay.  When you say curb, are you talking

      11   about the east side of Watterson on the sidewalk?

      12        A    Yes.

      13        Q    Did you continue to stay on the east

      14   sidewalk on Watterson during that entire incident?

      15        A    I believe I did.

      16        Q    Did you at any time see anyone being blocked

      17   or any vehicle being blocked as a result of Mr. Minton

      18   being on the street with the two police officers?

      19        A    No.  I kept glancing over my left shoulder

      20   because I was the first closest one I think toward the

      21   street and if traffic had turned I would have been the

      22   closest one to see it and I was close to the curb.

      23        Q    Now, when you say close to the street, are

      24   you referring to Cleveland Street?

      25        A    No, I'm referring to the side street that

.                                                                1135

       1   the Trust is on.

       2        Q    All right.

       3        A    Close to the actual gutter.

       4        Q    Okay.  For purposes of clarification, the

       5   street that the Trust is on is called Watterson?

       6        A    Right, I was on Watterson, close to the curb

       7   and perhaps six or eight feet from Cleveland where it

       8   starts --

       9        Q    All right.  Cleveland being on the south end

      10   of Watterson?

      11        A    South end behind me.

      12        Q    And so it's your testimony that you were the

      13   closest one to Cleveland and you kept glancing over

      14   your shoulder to see if any cars were coming in?

      15        A    Right.

      16        Q    All right.  During this entire confrontation

      17   between Mr. Minton and the two police, did you see any

      18   vehicles turn in to Watterson and Cleveland?

      19        A    No.

      20            MR. HOWIE:  Thank you.  I don't have any

      21       further questions.

      22            THE COURT:  Mr. Pope.

      23                     CROSS-EXAMINATION

      24   BY MR. POPE:

      25        Q    Mr. Lerma, I believe you were served with a

.                                                                1136

       1   copy of the injunction on December 1, 2000; is that

       2   correct?

       3        A    At some point in the beginning of my visit a

       4   copy was thrown at my feet.

       5        Q    You did not pick it up?

       6        A    I did not pick it up.

       7        Q    You declined to accept it?

       8        A    I did not read it.  I believe I picked it up

       9   so it wouldn't be littering.

      10        Q    But you knew once you got to, when you came

      11   town you heard from others I believe you indicated

      12   that there was in fact an injunction outstanding

      13   relative to picketing, was there not?

      14        A    Yes.

      15        Q    All right.  And if I understood your

      16   testimony, it is that from December 1 until today, as

      17   you sit here today charged with criminal contempt, you

      18   have still not read that injunction?

      19        A    We since it was first served and to this day

      20   I don't believe that I am an associate or employee of

      21   the Lisa McPherson Trust.

      22        Q    Okay.  You're familiar with the brochure of

      23   the Lisa McPherson Trust?

      24        A    Yes, I am.

      25        Q    And that you're listed as an advisory

.                                                                1137

       1   committee member?

       2        A    Yes.

       3        Q    All right, but notwithstanding that you are

       4   not affiliated with the Lisa McPherson Trust?

       5        A    If they took my advice perhaps I would feel

       6   that way.

       7        Q    Pardon me?

       8        A    If they took my advice or asked my advice at

       9   any point in time I might feel that way, though my

      10   name is there in my opinion, sir, to give the

      11   organization credibility amongst its peers.

      12        Q    Did you allow your name to be listed here?

      13        A    Absolutely.

      14        Q    Okay.  When you come to town do you go over

      15   to the Lisa McPherson Trust Building?

      16        A    I've been picketing with many of the people

      17   that are there for four years previous to this.

      18        Q    And you're picketing and you have been

      19   picketing with them from December 1, 2000 to date,

      20   correct?

      21        A    The previous, the last time that I picketed

      22   was with Ms. Bezazian.

      23        Q    That was when?

      24        A    That would have been January, during that

      25   week.

.                                                                1138

       1        Q    Since December 1, 2000 you have in fact

       2   picketed with various people who are associated with

       3   the LMT, correct?

       4        A    When they chose to picket.  That's fine.

       5        Q    So you participated with them, correct?

       6        A    One of the pickets -- I participated with

       7   them?  I like to think they were participating with

       8   me.

       9        Q    You were participating together, weren't he?

      10        A    It's guaranteed by the Constitution.

      11        Q    And you were doing so with knowledge that

      12   there was an injunction outstanding in place that

      13   regulated the picketing activity?

      14        A    That is actually why, even though I did not

      15   consider myself subject to the injunction, I chose to

      16   try to abide by that at all times.

      17        Q    Okay.  So you knew there was one and you

      18   made an attempt to abide by it, correct?

      19        A    Yes, absolutely.

      20        Q    And the source of your knowledge, about the

      21   terms of it was what other people told you?

      22        A    Yes.

      23        Q    All right.  And not that you read it

      24   directly yourself?

      25        A    Correct.

.                                                                1139

       1        Q    All right.  Now, you indicated some

       2   knowledge of the orange zones.  Did you ever look at

       3   any of these maps?

       4        A    Yes.  I glanced at the maps, but depended on

       5   others who actually carried them with them and took

       6   the time to look at this all, too.

       7        Q    Did you look at the Coachman map that has a

       8   couple of arrows and the driveway and the notation

       9   stay ten feet back from entranceways?

      10        A    You would have to cross the driveway.

      11        Q    I didn't ask you that.  It says stay ten

      12   feet back from entranceways, doesn't it?

      13        A    Yes.

      14        Q    Okay.  Now, when you crossed this driveway

      15   you had your picket sign up, didn't you?

      16        A    I don't recall.

      17        Q    Okay.  Well, the video would be the best

      18   evidence of that, wouldn't it?

      19        A    I believe it would.

      20        Q    Did you hear through scuttlebutt about this

      21   that if you weren't picketing that all you had to do

      22   was turn your picket sign upside down and you could

      23   walk around anywhere you wanted to?

      24        A    Absolutely.

      25        Q    Okay.  But, you don't remember whether you

.                                                                1140

       1   did that when you were crossing that driveway, did

       2   you?

       3        A    As an actual fact, I don't remember that.  I

       4   do know that I picketed on many locations around the

       5   downtown area and made every effort to do so.

       6        Q    And how many times since, say in the last

       7   year have you come to Clearwater to picket the Church

       8   of Scientology?

       9        A    Two times in the last year.

      10        Q    And in 2001 how many times?

      11        A    In the last -- wait.  In the last year going

      12   back --

      13        Q    Two times in the last year?  I

      14   misunderstood.  From this point back one year is

      15   twice?

      16        A    I believe so, yeah.

      17        Q    Okay.  Who paid your way down here?

      18        A    I did.

      19        Q    Who paid your expenses while you were here?

      20        A    I did.

      21        Q    Have you received any funds whatsoever in

      22   the way of expense reimbursement or cash payments to

      23   you from Lisa McPherson Trust?

      24        A    No.

      25        Q    From Mr. Minton?

.                                                                1141

       1        A    No, not as a reimbursement.

       2        Q    What have you received from him in any form

       3   whatsoever?

       4        A    Since the start of litigation in RTC versus

       5   Lerma perhaps $100,000.

       6        Q    Okay, so, Minton, Mr. Minton, has paid on

       7   your behalf about $100,000 of litigation expenses?

       8        A    Mr. Minton hasn't paid anything on my

       9   behalf.

      10        Q    What has he done, transferred the money to

      11   you so that you can --

      12        A    No, he has gifted some funds from time to

      13   time.

      14        Q    He has done what?

      15        A    Gifted some funds from time to time.

      16        Q    He has given you money?

      17        A    Yes.

      18        Q    And you think it's about $100,000?

      19        A    Well, there is a portion, a large portion of

      20   that is a promissory note.

      21        Q    You signed a note back to him?

      22        A    Right.

      23        Q    How much money do you own him according to

      24   that note?

      25        A    $60,000.

.                                                                1142

       1        Q    Okay.  And the other $40,000 of the 100, was

       2   that a gift?

       3        A    Yes.

       4            MR. POPE:  Okay.  That's all I have,

       5       Your Honor?

       6            THE COURT:  Mr. Merrett.

       7                    REDIRECT EXAMINATION

       8   BY MR. MERRETT:

       9        Q    Why did Mr. Minton give you the money?

      10        A    I had been in litigation with Scientology

      11   for two years.  They had spent, in their own filings

      12   they claimed to have spent $1,700,000 litigating me.

      13        Q    All right.  In attorney fees and costs?

      14        A    Uh-huh.

      15        Q    And what was your financial situation as a

      16   result of RTC's, that is Scientology's litigation

      17   practice?

      18        A    I was essentially shellshocked.

      19        Q    Were you broke?

      20        A    Broke.  I had lived on inventory and credit

      21   cards and had offered to sell the computer I was

      22   typing on the internet to Mr. Minton.

      23        Q    And Mr. Minton volunteered to bail you out

      24   of the position Scientology put you in?

      25        A    He sent me an e-mail fax saying helps is on

.                                                                1143

       1   the way.

       2            MR. MERRETT:  Okay.  I don't have

       3       anything further of this witness.

       4            THE COURT:  Mr. Howie.

       5            MR. HOWIE:  Your Honor, I don't have any

       6       questions.  Thank you.

       7            THE COURT:  Thank you, sir.

       8            MR. POPE:  I have a follow-up question,

       9       sir.

      10            THE COURT:  Follow-up.

      11                    RECROSS-EXAMINATION

      12   BY MR. POPE:

      13        Q    Were you employed by Factnet at the time of

      14   this litigation?

      15        A    I was a director for Factnet.

      16        Q    Didn't you have some insurance coverage?

      17        A    Yes, we did.

      18            MR. POPE:  Okay.  Thank you.

      19            THE COURT:  Any further questions?

      20            MR. MERRETT:  Nothing further.

      21            MR. HOWIE:  No, sir.

      22            THE COURT:  Sir, you may step down.

      23       Call your next witness.

      24            MR. MERRETT:  Your Honor, at this time I

      25       would tender a submission to the party

.                                                                1144

       1       opponent the Hubbard Communications Office

       2       policy letter of 18 October, 1967 and the

       3       Hubbard Communications Offices police letter

       4       of 21 October, 1968.

       5            MR. POPE:  Objection, Your Honor.

       6            THE COURT:  What are these?  I know what

       7       they are.  Wait a minute.  Take a look at it,

       8       Mr. Pope.

       9             (Whereupon, documents were reviewed.)

      10            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, in the first

      11       place, there is no predicate laid that these

      12       documents dating back to 1967 and 1968 are in

      13       fact current policies of anybody.  And if we

      14       get into this, this is part of the old Fair

      15       Game routine.

      16            We get into this we might as well add

      17        another week to the thing so we can hash

      18        this thing and show how this thing worked

      19        out over time.

      20            THE COURT:  Mr. Merrett, where are we

      21       going with these?

      22            MR. MERRETT:  Your Honor, to demonstrate

      23       that as the earlier policy letter says

      24       according to Scientology practice, enemies or

      25       suppressive persons may be deprived of

.                                                                1145

       1       property or injured by any means by any

       2       Scientologist without any discipline of the

       3       Scientologist may be tricked, sued or lied to

       4       or destroyed and the purported cancellation

       5       of that order in 1968 only canceled the use

       6       of the term but did not cancel any policy

       7       regarding treatment or handling of

       8       suppressive persons.

       9            Additionally, I'm prepared to present

      10        through original documentation that

      11        Scientology doctrine and policy as a matter

      12        of doctrine and policy was frozen in place

      13        with the death of Mr. Hubbard since any

      14        alteration to the technology these doctrines

      15        are considered squirreling, which many

      16        people saying Mr. Miscavige and his

      17        companions have been busily engaged in, but

      18        nonetheless, the fact is the all of

      19        Scientology's doctrine are frozen in 1986

      20        and the cancellation supposed this Fair Game

      21        police was ineffective.

      22            Additionally, you have case law there

      23        entered subsequent to the 1968 purported

      24        cancellation of Fair Game finding

      25        Scientology was given a full and fair

.                                                                1146

       1        opportunity to demonstrate that it had in

       2        fact been canceled in substance as well as

       3        in name and was unable to do so.  That's in

       4        I believe the Allred (sic) case.

       5            Essentially, Your Honor, what I'm

       6        prepared to demonstrate is that this is

       7        Scientology policy with respect to the

       8        defendants in this case and as a companion

       9        to that to demonstrate that each of the

      10        persons who have testified who is a member

      11        of Scientology is subject to Scientology

      12        ethics and to punishment for failure to

      13        color their testimony in accordance with

      14        desired outcome of Scientology.

      15            This is a matter the Scientology

      16        doctrine demonstrated time and time again in

      17        court after court.  We're not plowing new

      18        ground here.

      19            As I say, the Allred court, Department

      20        of State, case a federal court recognized

      21        that Fair Game had been demonstrated and

      22        proven to exist again subsequent to the

      23        purported cancellation of the doctrine.

      24            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, this, again I

      25       think you've ruled on this about three of

.                                                                1147

       1       four times already.  Same kind of argument

       2       that was made early in the case before

       3       Mr. Merrett and I even were involved in it.

       4            We're passed that.  We're at the point

       5        of the injunction and whether the conduct

       6        violated it.

       7            This isn't a one week extra trial.  This

       8        is a two week extra trial to get into the

       9        stuff and it invokes the whole subject of

      10        our motion in limine dealed with matters of

      11        internal religious doctrine.

      12            MR. MERRETT:  I would only point out

      13       that I am trilled to death to have on the

      14       record that Fair Game is a religious doctrine

      15       of Scientology.

      16            THE COURT:  All right.  We'll stop with

      17       that, and I'll hand these back to you and

      18       we'll press on.

      19            MR. MERRETT:  Your Honor, I would ask

      20       that they be accepted by the court in the

      21       form of a proffer in order to preserve the

      22       record on appeal.

      23            THE COURT:  I'll do that.

      24            MR. MERRETT:  Thank you, sir.

      25            THE COURT:  I'll do that.  Hold on.

.                                                                1148

       1       Bear with me now.

       2             (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit Number Ten

       3        was marked for identification.)

       4            That's marked for ID and not in

       5        evidence.  Now, I made my statement on the

       6        record that I've already been there and it's

       7        already come out in prior proceedings before

       8        this court and if at a later date for

       9        appellate purposes if something comes up,

      10        well, although there is nothing in the

      11        record, let the record be real clear that

      12        I'm saying I don't want to go plowing this

      13        up.  I've been there before.

      14            If that becomes an issue, you can ask

      15        the appellate court to give leave back to me

      16        for the jurisdiction, I'll make a record.

      17            MR. MERRETT:  Yes.  There are two

      18       additional documents I wish to tender by

      19       proffer.

      20            THE COURT:  Uh-huh.

      21            MR. MERRETT:  One is the

      22       Scientologist's, a manual on dissemination of

      23       material by L. Ron Hubbard dated 1955.  The

      24       quotation is "Never be interested in charges.

      25       Do yourself much more charging and you will

.                                                                1149

       1       win and the public seeing that you've won

       2       will then have a communication like the

       3       effect of Scientologists win."

       4            MR. POPE:  Excuse me, he doesn't -- it

       5       seems to me he doesn't need to recite out of

       6       this it he wants to make a proffer.  I object

       7       to it coming into evidence.

       8            Of course I don't object if he wants to

       9        make a proffer without standing up here and

      10        reciting it you.

      11            MR. MERRETT:  Well. I don't want to

      12       taint the jury.  I guess I see the objection

      13       then.

      14            THE COURT:  Well, since the bench is the

      15       jury, but so that we don't get into all this,

      16       I'm telling you it's been argued before that

      17       in dealing with the Church of Scientology, I

      18       mean I've been in these cases for years.

      19            A good offense is your best defense.

      20        That's what you just got through telling me

      21        and I'm aware of that.

      22            MR. MERRETT:  Yes, sir.

      23            THE COURT:  Now, if that's not -- I mean

      24       if that's not acceptable to both sides, then

      25       let's put all this in and go for it.

.                                                                1150

       1            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, I have no

       2       objection to his making a proffer.  I do

       3       object to him reading it to the court in

       4       connection to him making a proffer.

       5            THE COURT:  Okay.  I'm just trying to

       6       shortcut this a little bit.

       7            MR. MERRETT:  The other documents I

       8       would proffer is the HCO policy letter of

       9       15 August, 1960, regarding the manufacturer

      10       of threat against enemy.

      11            THE COURT:  No, I make these proffers,

      12       the last one was marked for ID Number Ten,

      13       which is not in evidence.

      14            This one, the Scientologist, a Manual on

      15        the Dissemination of Material I'll mark

      16        ID 11.

      17             (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit Number 11

      18        was marked for identification.)

      19            All right.  Now this one, Hubbard

      20        Communication's Office HC0 Policy Letter of

      21        15 August, 1960, Department of Government

      22        Affairs, marked for identification number 12

      23        ID, only.

      24             (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit Number 12

      25        was marked for identification.)

.                                                                1151

       1            Okay.  Those are proffered.  They are

       2        not in evidence and so marked.

       3            MR. MERRETT:  Thank you, Your Honor.

       4       Call Mark Bunker.

       5   Thereupon:

       6                        MARK BUNKER

       7   was called as a witness and having been duly sworn, was

       8   examined and testified as follows:

       9                     DIRECT EXAMINATION

      10   BY MR. MERRETT:

      11        Q    Would you state your name, sir?

      12        A    Mark Bunker, B-U-N-K-E-R.

      13        Q    Are you employed by the Lisa McPherson

      14   Trust?

      15        A    Yes, I am.

      16        Q    How long have you worked there?

      17        A    Since the opening of the Trust in January of

      18   2000.

      19        Q    What is it that you do for a living?

      20        A    I'm in charge of the multimedia side of the

      21   LMT.  I produce videos.

      22        Q    And are you the creator of the first portion

      23   of the video that we saw regarding Ursula Caberta?

      24        A    Yes.

      25            THE COURT:  Say what?

.                                                                1152

       1            MR. MERRETT:  The video regarding Ursula

       2       Caberta.

       3            THE COURT:  Okay.  I see.

       4            MR. MERRETT:  May I approach the

       5       witness, Your Honor?

       6            THE COURT:  Yes.

       7   BY MR. MERRETT:

       8        Q    Let me ask you to take a look at this video

       9   cassette and ask you if you recognize it?

      10        A    Yes.

      11        Q    Is that a dubbed down of a cassette that

      12   yourself taped?

      13        A    Yes, it is.

      14        Q    Where you present when Mr. Henson testified

      15   yesterday about having had a police officer

      16   essentially explain that he wanted everybody to picket

      17   only in the orange zone?

      18        A    Yes, I was.

      19        Q    Were you present when that happened?

      20        A    Yes.

      21        Q    And did you videotape that officer's

      22   explanation?

      23        A    Yes.

      24        Q    And is that a videotape of that

      25   presentation?

.                                                                1153

       1        A    It is.

       2        Q    Does that videotape fairly and accurately

       3   represent the communication of that officer to

       4   Mr. Henson that Mr. Henson referred to as the second

       5   time the police talked to him?

       6        A    Yes.

       7        Q    And after that time did you ever see

       8   Mr. Henson picketing outside an orange zone?

       9        A    No.

      10            MR. MERRETT:  What I would like for you

      11       to do and, Your Honor, we ended up with only

      12       one copy of this for some reason.  I don't

      13       know why.  I think it was my error in leaving

      14       this morning.

      15            I would like for you on the label, not

      16        on the box, but if you would initial and

      17        date that?

      18            MR. BUNKER:  On the label, you said?

      19            MR. MERRETT:  On the label, yes.  Thank

      20       you.  Your Honor, rather than publish it now,

      21       I will just send it home with Mr. Pope to

      22       watch over the weekend.

      23            THE COURT:  All right.

      24   BY MR. MERRETT:

      25        Q    Mr. Bunker, do you also follow matters

.                                                                1154

       1   relating to the Lisa McPherson Trust over the

       2   internet?

       3        A    Yes, I do.

       4        Q    And are you familiar with a web site called

       5   Bigot Watch?

       6        A    Yes.

       7        Q    Okay.

       8            THE COURT:  Called what?

       9            MR. MERRETT:  Bigot Watch, Bigot dash

      10       Watch.

      11            THE COURT:  Dot Com?

      12            MR. MERRETT:  I don't know.

      13            MR. BUNKER:  Dot Org.

      14            THE COURT:  Bigot-Watch,Org?

      15            MR. BUNKER:  Dot net, I'm sorry.

      16            MR. MERRETT:  Mr. Shaw suggest that

      17       there is no dash in there.  Do you know for

      18       sure that there is a dash?

      19            MR. BUNKER:  No, there is no dash.

      20            THE COURT:  B-I-G-O-T-W-A-T-C-H?

      21            MR. BUNKER:  Yes.

      22            THE COURT:  No dash?

      23            MR. BUNKER:  No.

      24            THE COURT:  Okay.


.                                                                1155

       1   BY MR. MERRETT:

       2        Q    Now, let me ask you, is that web site on

       3   when documents from this case appeared as they were

       4   issued at one point?

       5        A    Yes.

       6        Q    Do you recall being present in court on the

       7   occasion when I brought to the court's attention the

       8   fact that a document had appeared in Bigotwatch before

       9   it been delivered to counsel?

      10        A    Yes.

      11        Q    And did you have occasion that night after

      12   dark to look at Bigotwatch again?

      13        A    Yes.

      14        Q    And were those document still up there?

      15            MR. POPE:  Objection, Your Honor.  He's

      16       testify as to something he observed out of

      17       court on the internet.  What's the proper

      18       predicate for that?

      19            THE COURT:  I don't know where we're

      20       going here but let's find out.  Hold on.

      21       Just a minute.  What's the significance of

      22       viewing it after dark.

      23            MR. MERRETT:  Just later that day is

      24       all, Your Honor.

      25            THE COURT:  I thought they didn't show

.                                                                1156

       1       up in a lighted room.

       2            MR. MERRETT:  I understand.  That

       3       sounded like it was something significant.

       4            THE COURT:  Okay.  Okay.  Let's see

       5       where are we going with this now?

       6   BY MR. MERRETT:

       7        Q    After we left court did you look at the web

       8   site again?

       9        A    Yes.

      10        Q    And were those court documents there?

      11        A    They had been removed.

      12            MR. MERRETT:  Okay.  I don't have

      13       anything further, Your Honor.

      14            MR. POPE:  I object and move to strike

      15       his testimony on the basis of the best

      16       evidence rule, Your Honor.

      17            He's testified the existence of

      18        documents that were somewhere on the

      19        internet.

      20            The best evidence for that would be to

      21        produce them.  He says they're gone.  I

      22        presume he can't do it and move to strike

      23        the testimony.

      24            MR. MERRETT:  Counsel is ever too clever

      25       by having misapprehended the import of the

.                                                                1157

       1       best rule is where the contents of a document

       2       is a matter in controversy in a proceeding

       3       before th court that is to be proven by the

       4       document itself rather than by reference to

       5       extraneous sources.

       6            The question here is not the content of

       7        a document, it's the content of a web site.

       8            Whether a particular item was displayed

       9        on a web site before and after it was

      10        brought to the court's attention that that

      11        abuse was being made.

      12            THE COURT:  All right.  Overruled.

      13       Mr. Howie, you have any questions?

      14            MR. HOWIE:  I have no questions.  I may

      15       be calling Mr. Bunker later on.

      16            THE COURT:  You're not excused.  Wait a

      17       minute, we need to go to Mr. Pope.  He may

      18       have some questions regarding time.  I don't

      19       know.  Mr. Pope?

      20                     CROSS-EXAMINATION

      21   BY MR. POPE:

      22        Q    With regards to this videotape, Mr. Bunker?

      23        A    Yes.

      24        Q    That bears the date 12/1/2000?

      25        A    Yes.

.                                                                1158

       1        Q    What time of day did you make this film?

       2        A    That was late afternoon, I would say

       3   somewhere around four or five.

       4        Q    Is the date stamp on this film?

       5        A    No.

       6        Q    So that's your memory as to when you did it?

       7        A    Yes.

       8            MR. POPE:  All right.  I don't have any

       9       further questions.

      10            THE COURT:  All right.  Mr. Merrett,

      11       anything from you?

      12            MR. MERRETT:  No, Your Honor.  No

      13       further questions from the witness.

      14            THE COURT:  Mr. Howie?

      15            MR. HOWIE:  Nothing.

      16            THE COURT:  Sir, you may step down.

      17            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, I just want to

      18       say that once I have an opportunity to look

      19       at this --

      20            THE COURT:  You want him brought back.

      21            MR. POPE:  I'd like to be able to talk

      22       to him perhaps.

      23            THE COURT:  Okay.  Again, twice now you

      24       can't get away from here, okay.  Please,

      25       they'll probably be calling you back and

.                                                                1159

       1       Mr. Merrett may want to try to put this in or

       2       something so three people are going to want

       3       to call you.  Thank you, very much.

       4            MR. MERRETT:  Your Honor, if we could

       5       take a break for me to review --

       6            THE COURT:  Ten minutes.

       7             (A short recess took place after which the

       8        proceedings continued.)

       9            THE COURT:  Please be seated.

      10       Mr. Merrett, sir, call you next witness.

      11            MR. MERRETT:  Yes, Your Honor, call

      12       Heather Bennett.

      13            THE COURT:  Heather Bennett, please.

      14   Thereupon:

      15                      HEATHER BENNETT

      16   was called as a witness and having been duly sworn, was

      17   examined and testified as follows:

      18                     DIRECT EXAMINATION

      19   BY MR. MERRETT:

      20        Q    Ms. Bennett, you reside at 33 North

      21   Ft. Harrison in Clearwater?

      22        A    I do.

      23        Q    And are you an employee of the Trust?

      24        A    No, I'm not.

      25        Q    Were you formerly an employee?

.                                                                1160

       1        A    Yes, I was.

       2        Q    What is your present status with the Trust?

       3        A    I'm a contractor with the Lisa McPherson

       4   Trust.

       5        Q    And why is it that you reside at that

       6   address?

       7        A    I met with Jesse Prince, Stacy Brooks and

       8   Tory Bezazian in September of last year after I guess

       9   living in hiding from OSA for five years, because I

      10   feared that they would Fair Game me.

      11        Q    Are you a former Scientologist?

      12        A    I am.  I was born into the Church of

      13   Scientology.

      14        Q    Are you --

      15            THE COURT:  You were what?

      16            MS. BENNETT:  I was born into a

      17       Scientology family.

      18            THE COURT:  Okay.

      19   BY MR. MERRETT:

      20        Q    Are you presently a member?

      21        A    No, I am not.

      22        Q    As a result of your leaving have you been

      23   disconnected from your family?

      24        A    Both of my parents, my siblings and even

      25   my -- at one point even my children were disconnected

.                                                                1161

       1   from me.

       2        Q    Your children are not presently

       3   disconnected?

       4        A    No, they are not.

       5        Q    Okay.  And where were you living before you

       6   moved to 33 North Ft. Harrison?

       7        A    I was living in Dunedin.

       8        Q    Okay.  Is your apartment there in the LMT

       9   building, is that part of your compensation package?

      10        A    It is part of my compensation package, yes.

      11        Q    And what is it that prompted you to move

      12   from Dunedin?

      13        A    Well, I met with Jesse and Stacy and Tory, I

      14   think it was on a Thursday, and by Saturday my

      15   apartment had been broken into, and --

      16            MR. POPE:  Objection, Your Honor.  First

      17       of all so far everything that she has said

      18       has no probative value on any issue in the

      19       court.  She's not testifying against anybody

      20       who presently has a contempt order to show

      21       cause --

      22            MS. BENNETT:  May I add --

      23            MR. POPE:  Excuse me.  Furthermore, she

      24       is setting up some implication that her

      25       apartment was broken into.  I guess she's

.                                                                1162

       1       going to point the finger over here and

       2       there's nothing probative whatever about her

       3       testimony.

       4            THE COURT:  Mr. Merrett, sir.

       5            MR. MERRETT:  Your Honor, the issue

       6       raised where it is that Ms. Bennett lives and

       7       where it is that Ms. Bezazian stays when she

       8       is in town and I thought it appropriate to

       9       paint a completer picture of that matter.

      10            MR. POPE:  Your Honor, the sole purpose

      11       of the testimony of about that Ms. Bezazian

      12       staying there is to link her to LMT.  That's

      13       the sole function of it.

      14            THE COURT:  You may proceed with this

      15       line of questioning and let's just, as far as

      16       there has been a lot of testimony about these

      17       people fearing the Church of Scientology or

      18       being -- I don't know what.  I've always

      19       thought the term was excommunicated but I

      20       don't know what --

      21            MR. MERRETT:  Disconnected or Fair Game.

      22            THE COURT:  Yeah.  Going to that, but

      23       let's stay away from trying to say or as far

      24       as this breaking up.


.                                                                1163

       1   BY MR. MERRETT:

       2        Q    Yes, sir.  So after these events you looked

       3   for another place to live and moved to 33 North

       4   Ft. Harrison.

       5        A    I did because I wanted to feel safe.

       6        Q    Okay.  And do you expect to be moving again

       7   in connection with your employment?

       8        A    I do.  I will be helping the LMT to open a

       9   Washington DC office.

      10        Q    When do you expect to do that?

      11        A    This weekend.

      12            MR. MERRETT:  I have nothing further.

      13            THE COURT:  Mr. Howie?

      14            MR. HOWIE:  I have no questions, Your

      15       Honor.

      16            THE COURT:  Mr. Pope?

      17            MR. POPE:  I have a question.

      18            THE COURT:  Yes, sir.

      19                     CROSS-EXAMINATION

      20   BY MR. POPE:

      21        Q    Ms. Bennett, now you have professed great

      22   fear that you're going to be tormented by the

      23   Scientologists, correct?

      24        A    Yes, sir.

      25        Q    And notwithstanding that fear you decided to

.                                                                1164

       1   move into a building that's 20 feet away from one of

       2   their major facilities in Clearwater, correct?

       3        A    That's true, yes.

       4            MR. POPE:  Thank you.  I have no further

       5       questions.

       6            THE COURT:  Okay.  Mr. Merrett?

       7            MR. MERRETT:  Nothing further, Your

       8       Honor.

       9            THE COURT:  All right.  Ms. Bennett, you

      10       may step down and have a seat back out there.

      11            All right.  Mr. Merrett, call your next

      12        witness.

      13            MR. MERRETT:  Your Honor, somebody is on

      14       the way up from parking lot with the boxes

      15       for the middle portion of my presentation, if

      16       we could just wait a few minutes.

      17            THE COURT:  We can just wait.

      18            MR. MERRETT:  No, sir, I rest at this

      19       point.

      20            MR. POPE:  In think that was a joke,

      21       Your Honor.

      22            THE COURT:  Sounds to me like direct

      23       criminal contempt.

      24            MR. MERRETT:  If that really were the

      25       first third it would be.

.                                                                1165

       1            THE COURT:  Let's do this.  You're

       2       saying that you announce rest.

       3            MR. MERRETT:  As to my clients, yes,

       4       Your Honor.

       5            THE COURT:  All right.  And, Mr. Howie,

       6       at this time then we would move over you,

       7       Mr. Howie.  Mr. Howie --

       8            MR. HOWIE:  Your Honor, anticipating

       9       your question, here's how I would like to

      10       proceed.

      11            I intend to put on Mr. Bunker merely to

      12        lay a predicate for a videotape what I will

      13        then provide to Mr. Pope to review over the

      14        weekend.  It is my intention that my next

      15        witness would be my client, Mr. Minton.

      16            THE COURT:  Monday morning.

      17            MR. HOWIE:  Which would be Monday

      18       morning.  Obviously, I see no point in trying

      19       to --

      20            THE COURT:  Well, let the record reflect

      21       that it's now Friday afternoon, on this the

      22       16th day February, the year 2001.  It's

      23       approximately 1620 hours or 4:20 PM and I

      24       have every reason to anticipate that there

      25       will be some lengthy testimony with the next

.                                                                1166

       1       couple witnesses, so I do not want to press

       2       into that today under any circumstances.

       3            MR. POPE:  I have discussed that with

       4       him and am in full agreement with that, Your

       5       Honor.

       6            THE COURT:  Okay.  Very good.  Now, he

       7       does want to put Mr. Bunker on right now to

       8       lay the predicate for that particular video

       9       he wants to pass to Mr. Pope, right?

      10            MR. HOWIE:  Yes, sir.

      11            THE COURT:  Mr. Bunker, come forward

      12       sir, and I'm going to keep you under the same

      13       oath I put you under about half hour ago.

      14            MR. MERRETT:  Judge, may I ask one

      15       question before we move on?

      16            THE COURT:  Yes.

      17            MR. MERRETT:  As far as Ms. Bezazian and

      18       Mr. Lerma, and they don't necessarily need to

      19       get up this minute, but may they be excused

      20       from these proceedings pending obviously

      21       recall of the court?

      22            THE COURT:  They can be excused pending

      23       recall.

      24            MR. MERRETT:  I mean, if you need them

      25       for something?

.                                                                1167

       1            THE COURT:  But, the final -- when I

       2       announce my decision on some of this, I mean

       3       if I do find contempt, you know, I intend to

       4       press on.

       5            MR. MERRETT:  I understand that.

       6            THE COURT:  As long as they're subject

       7       to recall.

       8            MR. MERRETT:  They understand that, as

       9       well, Your Honor.

      10            THE COURT:  Okay.

      11            MR. MERRETT:  Thank you.

      12            THE COURT:  Now.  Let's do this.

      13       Mr. Howie.

      14            MR. HOWIE:  Your Honor, may it please

      15       the court?

      16            THE COURT:  Yes, sir.

      17                     DIRECT EXAMINATION

      18   BY MR. HOWIE:

      19        Q    Mr. Bunker, you were previously placed under

      20   oath, but please state your full name for the record?

      21        A    Mark Bunker.

      22        Q    Mr. Bunker, you've previously testified that

      23   you are an employee of the Lisa McPherson Trust and

      24   that you act as their videographer; is that correct?

      25        A    Yes.

.                                                                1168

       1        Q    And part of your duties I believe you

       2   already testified to is that you produce videotapes

       3   for or on behalf of the Lisa McPherson Trust?

       4        A    Yes.

       5        Q    Generally, what is the purpose of producing

       6   these videotapes?

       7        A    Well, there are several purposes.

       8   Educational is the primary purpose.  We publish a lot

       9   of video on the internet for folks around the world to

      10   see the activities of the Lisa McPherson Trust and to

      11   see the behavior of Scientology.

      12            THE COURT:  You post video on the

      13       internet?

      14            MR. BUNKER:  Yes.  People can go to our

      15       web site and just by clicking on the video it

      16       will start playing.

      17            THE COURT:  I'm sorry, what is the web

      18       site?

      19            MR. BUNKER:  That would be

      20       WWW.LisaTrust.Net and if you click on

      21       Multimedia you'll go over to the LMT Media

      22       which is the side of the site I'm in charge

      23       of.

      24            THE COURT:  I see.  Okay.


.                                                                1169

       1   BY MR. HOWIE:

       2        Q    Mr. Bunker, as part of your duties have you

       3   produced any documentaries concerning the Lisa

       4   McPherson Trust or Scientology?

       5        A    Yes.

       6        Q    What kind of documentaries have you

       7   produced?

       8        A    Well, there have been many.  I have done a

       9   lot of interviews with former members. people like

      10   Tory Bezazian, who I knew before she left Scientology.

      11             One documentary that we were discussing here

      12   in court is that what we call Scientology and the

      13   Clearwater Police.  It details what we feel for be a

      14   troubling bias against the Lisa McPherson Trust on the

      15   part of the Clearwater police force.

      16        Q    On the part of the entire Clearwater police

      17   force or certain members?

      18        A    No, there are many police officers who work

      19   off duty for Scientology and there have been many

      20   instances with those officers who have had to respond

      21   to situations that involved both Scientologists and

      22   Trust members where they have shown clear bias against

      23   us.

      24             There are some officers who work regularly

      25   for Scientology, like Officer Harbert, who has shown

.                                                                1170

       1   some bias.

       2        Q    Now, you are saying you produced one

       3   documentary concerning this particular issue.  I want

       4   to ask you a little bit about how that documentary was

       5   constructed.  Was that done in one fell swoop or was

       6   it an edited documentary?

       7        A    I took footage that I had been shooting over

       8   the course of the past year, the year 2000, of these

       9   various incidences and I constructed a narrative

      10   around it into a 16 minute piece or 20 minute piece,

      11   to tell the story of what we have seen happening.

      12        Q    When did you finished producing this

      13   particular document?

      14        A    Would be in October of last year.

      15            MR. HOWIE:  If I may approach the

      16       witness, Your Honor?

      17            THE COURT:  You may.

      18   BY MR. HOWIE:

      19        Q    I'm going to present to you and

      20   unfortunately, Your Honor, I have not had this marked

      21   with an exhibit number.  I'm approaching you and I'm

      22   showing you a videotape and I'm going to ask you to

      23   look at the label and tell me if you recognize that.

      24        A    Yes.

      25        Q    What is that, please?

.                                                                1171

       1        A    This is the documentary Scientology and the

       2   Clearwater Police Department.

       3        Q    Now, is that the original of the documentary

       4   or a copy?

       5        A    This is a copy.

       6        Q    All right.  And approximately how many

       7   copies have you made of this?

       8        A    I'd say we've made and distributed about 30.

       9        Q    Were you, yourself, the editor of that tape?

      10        A    Yes.

      11        Q    Have you viewed that particular tape which

      12   you are now looking at?

      13        A    Yes.

      14        Q    Does it fairly and accurately depict the

      15   documentary from which you produced?

      16        A    Yes.

      17        Q    Concerning all segments on that documentary,

      18   were you present when all segments of that documentary

      19   were filmed?

      20        A    All except one brief snippet.

      21        Q    What brief snippet is that?

      22        A    There was a incident across the street from

      23   the Lisa McPherson Trust in the parking structure

      24   where Mike Krotz, another cameraman, had been punched

      25   in the stomach by a Scientologist, Dennis Clark.

.                                                                1172

       1        Q    You had an opportunity to review that

       2   segment as well, correct?

       3        A    Yes.

       4        Q    Apart from that segment, were you present

       5   and a witness to all of the other incidents on the

       6   tape?

       7        A    Yes.

       8        Q    As to those segments, do they fairly and

       9   accurately depict what you saw?

      10        A    Yes.

      11        Q    Now, concerning this particular videotape,

      12   after it was produced you said it was approximately

      13   October of last year, did you have occasion to view

      14   this or rather see Mr. Minton view this tape in your

      15   presence?

      16        A    Yes.

      17        Q    All right.  Is it your understanding from

      18   what you saw that he viewed it in its entirety?

      19        A    Yes.

      20        Q    Okay.

      21        A    Yes.

      22        Q    Okay.  Excuse me one moment.  Do you know

      23   when Mr. Minton viewed this?

      24        A    Almost immediately after it was finished.

      25   Late October, I would believe.

.                                                                1173

       1        Q    So, in fact, to your personal knowledge he

       2   viewed it well in advance of January 7, 2001?

       3        A    Yes.

       4            MR. HOWIE:  Your Honor, I will be

       5       providing this tape to Mr. Pope so I'm not

       6       going to place it with the court, however I

       7       ask that it be marked for purposes of

       8       identification at this time?

       9            THE COURT:  All right.  Hand it up here,

      10       please.

      11             (Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit RM Number

      12        One was marked for identification.)

      13            MR. HOWIE:  Your Honor, I just have one

      14       or two more questions.

      15            THE COURT:  Proceed.

      16   BY MR. HOWIE:

      17        Q    This has been marked as Defendant RM, for

      18   Robert Minton, Exhibit Number One.  Just so the record

      19   is clear, can you recite the contents of the printed

      20   label on that tape?

      21        A    The top of the label says Scientology and

      22   the Clearwater Police, 21 minutes, LMT Media, 33 North

      23   Ft. Harrison, Clearwater, Florida (727)467-9335 and

      24   Fax (727)467-9445.

      25        Q    Do you know what the purpose was for putting

.                                                                1174

       1   those telephone and fax numbers on there?

       2        A    Yes, to identify that this is a product of

       3   the Lisa McPherson Trust and anyone who had questions

       4   or concerns could contact us.

       5            MR. HOWIE:  Your Honor, if the record

       6       will reflect, I m providing Defendant Robert

       7       Minton's Number One for identification to

       8       Mr. Pope for review over the weekend as

       9       directed by the court.

      10            THE COURT:  Let the record so reflect.

      11            MR. HOWIE:  I have no further questions.

      12            THE COURT:  Mr. Pope.

      13            MR. POPE:  I acknowledge receipt of it

      14       but I did want to ask the witness a couple

      15       questions, reserving the right to ask him a

      16       few after I've seen it.

      17            THE COURT:  Okay.  Absolutely, and you

      18       may inquire at this time.  Mr. Merrett, I

      19       didn't give you a chance, but I'll get back

      20       to you.

      21            MR. MERRETT:  Yes, sir.

      22                     CROSS-EXAMINATION

      23   BY MR. POPE:

      24        Q    Mr. Bunker, I just want to be sure I

      25   understand the nature this film.  It's a documentary

.                                                                1175

       1   about a claim that the police are biased against LMT;

       2   is that correct?

       3        A    Well, it shows certain incidents as where

       4   the police have responded in a way which we believe

       5   shows a bias.

       6        Q    And the purpose of putting this film

       7   together was to put together a film clip that

       8   demonstrated police bias against LMT and its

       9   affiliates; is that correct?

      10        A    It was put together as a matter of

      11   protection as we felt we weren't safe.

      12        Q    The thing you were protecting is your claim

      13   of police bias, correct?

      14        A    No, we weren't protecting our claim.  We

      15   were worried about the consequences of what was

      16   happening.

      17        Q    And how is it that this film protected you?

      18        A    I believe that my camera is one of our major

      19   pieces of protection showing exactly what has been

      20   happening while we're here in Clearwater.

      21        Q    And these happenings that are shown in your

      22   mind establish police bias against LMT; is that

      23   correct?

      24        A    I think you'll have a chance to see the tape

      25   and --

.                                                                1176

       1        Q    Is that what you contend, sir?  Is that why

       2   you prepared this tape to show police bias against

       3   LMT?

       4        A    We showed it to -- we put it together to

       5   show how Scientology and its membership corrupt the

       6   system.

       7        Q    Corrupt the police; is that the system?

       8        A    Perhaps corrupt some individual police.

       9        Q    Okay.  So let's get back to the original

      10   question from which I have not gotten a straight

      11   answer from you.

      12            MR. MERRETT:  I'll object.

      13       Argumentative.

      14   BY MR. POPE:

      15        Q    Did you, did you --

      16            MR. MERRETT:  I wonder if Mr. Pope would

      17       be so good as to allow the court to rule on

      18       the objection just for a change of pace?

      19            THE COURT:  Well, gentlemen, can we hold

      20       on here for about ten more minutes until I

      21       can get you out of the courthouse and off my

      22       watch.

      23            Look, let's do this please.  Give him a

      24        change to answer.  I hear the answer and

      25        Mr. Bunker, if you would, try to be as

.                                                                1177

       1        direct and straightforward in answering the

       2        questions and let's go on.  Thank you very

       3        much.

       4   BY MR. POPE:

       5        Q    Did you produce this film to establish your

       6   belief, to document your belief that the police in

       7   Clearwater are biased against LMT?

       8        A    We wanted to show the instances where we

       9   felt that, yes, they were biased against us.

      10        Q    Okay.  Good.  And it is narrated by you,

      11   correct?

      12        A    Yes.

      13        Q    So what we have is snippets of incidents

      14   that you have videotaped with a voice override

      15   narrating it and it's you?

      16        A    Yes.

      17        Q    Is there any other voice on there besides

      18   yours?

      19        A    Yes, I interviewed former Lieutenant Ray

      20   Emmons who was in charge of investigating Scientology

      21   for 20-some years here, I believe, and former Mayor

      22   Gabe Cazarez who was Fair Gamed by Scientology.

      23        Q    Okay.  Any other voices on there besides

      24   Emmons and Cazarez?

      25        A    Stacy Brooks also was interviewed.

.                                                                1178

       1        Q    Okay.  Who else is on it?

       2        A    Mike Krotz who was assaulted by Dennis

       3   Clark, the Scientologist.

       4        Q    And who else is on it?

       5        A    Speaking on camera I think those are all of

       6   the only people who are speaking.

       7        Q    Are there video clips of police officers

       8   engaging in your view in biased behavior?

       9        A    Yes.

      10        Q    Okay.  How many of those do you have on

      11   there?

      12        A    Let's see.  There was the hammer incident.

      13   The officer there who responded when a man attacked my

      14   camera with a hammer.  The officer on the scene was

      15   Lieutenant Kelly who refused to look at the videotape

      16   of the hammer incident and threatened to arrest me for

      17   not telling the hammer assailant that I was recording

      18   audio.

      19        Q    Now, this hammer assailant, was this

      20   somebody you contend was a member of the Church of

      21   Scientology?

      22        A    He -- his name appeared in Scientology

      23   publications as having taken the drug rundown and

      24   later in police documents the Scientologist had

      25   offered to represent him in court.  I have no direct

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       1   evidence that he, himself, is a Scientologist since

       2   gave the police a phony name.

       3        Q    Okay, so you don't know whether the man is a

       4   Scientologist or not?

       5        A    In that instance I know he was working for a

       6   Scientologist.  He worked for a Scientology firm at

       7   the time.

       8        Q    And back to my question, you don't know

       9   whether he is a Scientologist, do you, sir?

      10        A    No.

      11        Q    All right.  Thank you.  Have you provided

      12   the Clearwater Police Department with a copy of this

      13   documentary?

      14        A    Yes.

      15        Q    To whom did you provide it?

      16        A    Well, it's my understanding that the Police

      17   Chief, Sid Kline, has shown the tape to the police

      18   force.

      19        Q    And have you discussed the matter with any

      20   member of the police department after providing it?

      21        A    Yes, I have discussed with many police

      22   officers on the beat, including Officer Connelly and

      23   the bike patrol.  The bike patrol was very adamant

      24   that they don't work for Scientology and they don't

      25   feel that --

.                                                                1180

       1            MR. POPE:  Objection, Your Honor.  He's

       2       volunteering all sorts of information about

       3       the bike patrol.  That's hearsay.  Move to

       4       strike it.

       5            THE COURT:  Sustained, as far as hearsay

       6       statements.

       7            MR. BUNKER:  I've talked to also Wayne

       8       Schulor, the police spokesperson, and asked

       9       him to do an on camera interview to provide

      10       the opposing side if he wishes to do so.

      11   BY MR. POPE:

      12        Q    Has he taken you up on that?

      13        A    No at this point.

      14        Q    And who paid for the making of this film?

      15        A    Well, it was an LMT project.  There is no

      16   specific budget.

      17        Q    LMT footed the bill on it?  You're a

      18   salaried employed of LMT, correct?

      19        A    Right.

      20            MR. POPE:  That's all I have.

      21            THE COURT:  Mr. Merrett?

      22            MR. MERRETT:  No questions, Your Honor.

      23            THE COURT:  Mr. Howie?

      24            MR. HOWIE:  No further questions.

      25            THE COURT:  Sir, you may step down but

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       1       subject to you recall after all of that, yes,

       2       sir.

       3            All right.  Now, ladies and gentlemen,

       4        within the scope of the statements that were

       5        made when we first came in after this most

       6        recent break, I think we're at that time

       7        where we can conclude this weeks activities

       8        and pick it up on Monday morning at nine

       9        o'clock right back here and we'll secure the

      10        courtroom over the weekend and everybody

      11        have a good weekend.  Thank you all very

      12        much.

      13             (Thereupon, the trial was adjourned to

      14        reconvene at 9:00 AM on February 19, 2001)

      15                      End of Volume IX