go to part 14

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. REGARDING THE CAMPAIGN -- LET'S BACK UP. AT THE OCTOBER, 17, 1982 MISSIONHOLDERS CONFERENCE, I BELIEVE THERE WAS A DISCUSSION REGARDING A BOOK CAMPAIGN TO PUSH, SELL, "DIANETICS MODERN .... MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH." A. RIGHT.

Q. DO YOU RECALL THAT THERE WAS SUCH A DISCUSSION?

A. NO, I DON'T. CAN YOU SHOW ME WHERE IT IS?

Q. WOULD YOU LOOK, PLEASE, AT PAGE 32? AND IF YOU WISH, TO BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, WHY DON'T YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE COPY THAT MR. LIEBERMAN WAS REFERRING TO, WHICH IS THE EXACT COPY I BROUGHT YESTERDAY.

MR. HERTZBERG: WHOA.

MS. PLEVIN: AGAIN, MY APOLOGIES FOR NOT HAVING CHECKED THAT THE COPY WAS IDENTICAL ON BOTH, THE ONE I BROUGHT YESTERDAY AND THE ONE I BROUGHT TODAY.

MR. HERTZBERG: JUST --

MS. PLEVIN: PAGE 32.

MR. HERTZBERG: JUST SO THE RECORD IS CLEAR, MISS PLEVIN, WE ARE NOT ACQUIESCING TO YOUR REPRESENTING -- IN VIEW OF WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE, WE ARE NOT ACQUIESCING TO YOUR REPRESENTATION THAT WHAT HE IS LOOKING AT NOW IS AN EXACT COPY OF --

MS. PLEVIN: FINE.

MR. HERTZBERG: -- WHAT HE LOOKED AT YESTERDAY.

MS. PLEVIN: WHAT HE IS LOOKING AT NOW IS THE COPY MR. LIEBERMAN HAD WITH HIM YESTERDAY, WHICH HE REPRESENTED WAS FROM YESTERDAY; AND AGAIN, WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT, IT WAS IN ERROR, AND I'M OFFERING MY APOLOGIES. YOU CAN IGNORE THEM IF YOU WISH. MR. HERTZBERG: FINE.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. THE LAST PARAGRAPH ON THE PAGE, MR. MISCAVIGE -- ACTUALLY, STARTING AT THE END OF THE NEXT TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH: "YOU'RE ALL GOING TO SIGN YOUR 5 PERCENT MINIMUM CGI DONATION TO THIS DMSMH CAMPAIGN," AND THEN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE NEXT PARAGRAPH, "YOU'RE GOING TO GET DIANETICS AND SCIENTOLOGY HOUSEHOLD WORLD" AND SO FORTH.

A. THAT'S "WORD."

Q. SORRY.

A. YOU SKIPPED A PARAGRAPH, TOO.

Q. SORRY. I INDICATED I WAS GOING DOWN TO THE NEXT PARAGRAPH. A. ALL RIGHT.

Q. OKAY.

MR. HERTZBERG: YOU'RE NOW TALKING ABOUT -- TO HIM ABOUT SOMETHING SOMEBODY ELSE SAID; RIGHT?

MR. HELLER: THAT IS RIGHT.

MS. PLEVIN: OF COURSE.

MR. HERTZBERG: I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPLICIT INITIALLY THAT YOU WERE IMPLYING THAT MR. MISCAVIGE SAID THIS, BUT LET'S -- JUST SO WE ARE CLEAR WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING MR. MISCAVIGE SAID. MS. PLEVIN: CORRECT.

MR. HERTZBERG: OKAY.

MS. PLEVIN: THIS WAS AT THE CONFERENCE PRESENTED BY WENDELL REYNOLDS.

THE WITNESS: OKAY. I SEE WHERE YOU'RE READING THERE.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. WHERE HE TALKS ABOUT THIS DMSMH CAMPAIGN.

A. DO YOU WANT ME TO READ THIS HERE?

Q. WHY DON'T YOU READ THOSE TWO PARAGRAPHS, AND PERHAPS IT WILL REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION REGARDING THAT CONFERENCE.

MR. HERTZBERG: I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE PENDING QUESTION IS.

THE WITNESS: I'M NOT EITHER.

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

THE WITNESS: GREAT PREDICTION THERE.

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

Q. NOW, I AM USING --

A. THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE USING?

Q. -- BOOK I CAMPAIGN TO REFER TO THE DMSMH CAMPAIGN.

A. YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE CONTENT OF THOSE PARAGRAPHS.

Q. THE CONTENT OF THOSE PARAGRAPHS.

A. THE CONTENT OF THOSE PARAGRAPHS, NO.

Q. OKAY.

(ATTORNEY-CLIENT DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. MR. MISCAVIGE, WHEN YOU WERE FIRST APPOINTED TO THE POSITION OF CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF 1987, DO YOU KNOW WHO -- WHO WERE THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS AT THAT TIME?

A. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT QUESTION MEANS. I'M SORRY.

Q. OKAY. YOU WERE APPOINTED TO THE CHAIRMAN -- TO THE POSITION OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF RTC IN 1987.

A. YES.

Q. WHO WERE THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS, IF YOU RECALL?

MR. HERTZBERG: WAIT A MOMENT.

THE WITNESS: WHO WERE THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS?

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)

MR. DRESCHER: HAD THE HEARING ON THE MOTION TO COMPEL CONCERNING THE IDENTITY OF THE DIRECTORS TO WHOM YOU MAKE REFERENCE COME UP AS SCHEDULED, WE WERE PREPARED TO THAT PARTICULAR ONE TO IDENTIFY THE DIRECTORS FOR YOU. SO WE'RE GOING TO DO SO. I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY AT THIS TIME TO PROLONG THIS PLAYING A TEST OF MEMORY GAME. WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU THOSE NAMES.

MS. PLEVIN: I DON'T CONCEDE THAT THAT IS THE PURPOSE. IT IS, NEVERTHELESS, VALID. ARE YOU INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER WHO THE BOARD MEMBERS WERE IF HE RECALLS? MR. HERTZBERG: IN WHAT YEAR?

MS. PLEVIN: WHEN HE WAS APPOINTED IN 1987.

MR. HERTZBERG: IF YOU REMEMBER.

THE WITNESS: AS LONG AS THIS ISN'T A TEST OF MY MEMORY. I MEAN --

MS. PLEVIN: SURE.

THE WITNESS: -- MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT IT WAS VICKI AZANARAN, JESSE PRINCE, WARREN MCSHANE.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. YOU STATED THAT YOU -- AT THAT TIME YOU, NORMAN STARKEY, AND LYMAN SPURLOCK WERE THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF RTC.

A. NO, I DIDN'T SAY THAT.

Q. OKAY. WHAT DID YOU SAY?

A. I SAID --

MR. HERTZBERG: WAIT A MOMENT. "WHAT DID YOU SAY?"

MS. PLEVIN: I THINK THE RECORD WILL STAND FOR ITSELF THAT HE SAID HE WAS APPOINTED TO THE CHAIRMAN -- POSITION OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD OF RTC BY THE TRUSTEES WHOM HE IDENTIFIED TO BE NORMAN STARKEY, LYMAN SPURLOCK, AND HIMSELF. THE WITNESS: PRECISELY.

MR. HERTZBERG: THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE QUESTION YOU ASKED.

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

MR. HERTZBERG: LET'S MOVE ON.

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

Q. WHAT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES -- OF THE TRUSTEES, THOSE THREE PEOPLE?

MR. DRESCHER: OBJECTION.

MR. HERTZBERG: THE FUNCTION? WAIT A MOMENT.

MR. DRESCHER: TO THE EXTENT IT CALLS FOR A CONCLUSION OF LAW --

MR. HERTZBERG: YEAH.

MR. DRESCHER: WE'LL INTERPOSE THAT OBJECTION.

MR. HERTZBERG: YEAH.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES?

MR. DRESCHER: SAME OBJECTION.

MR. HERTZBERG: SAME OBJECTION. I THINK IT CALLS FOR A LEGAL CONCLUSION.

(ATTORNEY-CLIENT DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)

MS. PLEVIN: LET --

MR. HERTZBERG: ALSO, THERE IS NO BOARD OF TRUSTEES.

MS. PLEVIN: ALL RIGHT.

MR. HERTZBERG: THE TESTIMONY, MISS PLEVIN, WAS TRUSTEES.

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

Q. WHAT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE TRUSTEES, AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT TO BE?

MR. DRESCHER: SAME OBJECTION.

MS. PLEVIN: ARE YOU INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER?

MR. HERTZBERG: I HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING YET.

MS. PLEVIN: FINE.

MR. HERTZBERG: I'M GOING TO ALLOW MR. MISCAVIGE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION TO THE EXTENT (A) THAT HE UNDERSTANDS IT, AND (B) THAT IT DOES NOT DISCLOSE ANY CONFIDENCES OBTAINED DURING THE COURSE OF ATTORNEY-CLIENT CONSULTATION.

MS. PLEVIN: OF COURSE.

THE WITNESS: SO THE QUESTION WAS?

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. WHAT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE TRUSTEES?

A. OKAY. WHEN YOU SAY, "FUNCTION," LET ME JUST UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT, JUST BECAUSE WE WENT THROUGH THIS YESTERDAY.

Q. WHAT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, THEIR ZONE OF RESPONSIBILITY?

A. BOARD OF DIRECTORS, APPOINTING OR REMOVING.

Q. OKAY. WERE YOU ONE OF THE INCORPORATORS OF RTC?

MR. HERTZBERG: THAT HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED YESTERDAY.

MS. PLEVIN: I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

MR. DRESCHER: IRRESPECTIVE OF THAT, IT CALLS FOR A LEGAL CONCLUSION.

THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE I WAS. YOU'D HAVE TO CHECK THE ACTUAL INCORPORATION PAPERS.

MR. HERTZBERG: I WANT THE RECORD TO BE CLEAR HE'S ANSWERING THAT IN THE CONTEXT OF A LAYPERSON BECAUSE WHAT SOMEBODY IS OR WHETHER SOMEONE IS AN INCORPORATOR OR NOT HAS A LEGAL MEANING.

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

Q. YOUR TESTIMONY YESTERDAY -- AGAIN, IF THIS IS AN INCORRECT SUMMATION, I'M SURE YOU'LL TELL ME. I JUST WANT TO MOVE FORWARD. WITH REGARD TO CONSULTING ATTORNEYS AS TO CERTAIN PROBLEMS THAT YOU PERCEIVED NEEDED ADDRESSING --

MR. HERTZBERG: IS THAT A QUESTION?

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. -- YOU STATED THAT -- AT ONE POINT YOU STATED THAT THE CLIENT IN THAT COMMUNICATION WAS CSC; DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. HERTZBERG: WAIT A MOMENT.

MR. HELLER: THAT'S NOT A PROPER QUESTION.

MR. HERTZBERG: I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW ANYONE COULD ANSWER THAT QUESTION. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT MISS PLEVIN IS REFERRING TO?

THE WITNESS: NO, I DON'T.

MS. PLEVIN: THE RECORD WILL STAND FOR ITSELF.

Q. THE ATTORNEYS THAT YOU CONSULTED -- YOU RECALL WE DISCUSSED YOUR CONSULTING ATTORNEYS YESTERDAY?

MR. LIEBERMAN: IN WHAT CONTEXT?

MS. PLEVIN: IN THE CONTEXT OF THE PROBLEMS HE PERCEIVED AS A SCIENTOLOGIST REGARDING MATTERS HE DIDN'T SPECIFICALLY SPECIFY UPON INSTRUCTION OF COUNSEL.

(ATTORNEY-CLIENT DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)

MR. HERTZBERG: I THINK HE DID SPECIFY THEM.

MS. PLEVIN: THERE WERE SOME -- I STAND CORRECTED. THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION.

Q. OBVIOUSLY, MR. MISCAVIGE, YOU RECALL THAT AREA OF INQUIRY?

MR. HELLER: SEE, NOW I OBJECT TO HAVING -- IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE DEPONENT, ASK A QUESTION INSTEAD OF --

MS. PLEVIN: WELL --

MR. HELLER: -- ASKING IF HE RECALLS WHAT HIS TESTIMONY WAS YESTERDAY. YOU HAVE A RECORD. THE RECORD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. IF YOU'VE GOT A QUESTION, ASK YOUR QUESTION.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. DO YOU RECALL THAT AREA OF DISCUSSION, WITHOUT GOING INTO SPECIFICALLY WHAT THE TESTIMONY WAS?

MR. DRESCHER: DO YOU --

THE WITNESS: IT'S A TRICK QUESTION.

MR. DRESCHER: -- RECALL IT TAKING PLACE; IS THAT THE QUESTION?

MS. PLEVIN: YES, THAT'S THE QUESTION.

Q. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. HELLER: DO YOU RECALL IT EVER COMING UP?

THE WITNESS: SOMEWHAT I RECALL THAT HAVING TAKEN PLACE.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. WHO WERE THE ATTORNEYS YOU CONSULTED?

A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "CONSULTED," WHICH IS YOUR WORD, NOT MINE?

Q. WHO WERE THE ATTORNEYS YOU SPOKE TO?

A. GIVEN THAT THAT'S A DIFFERENT DEFINITION -- OKAY. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT "SPOKE TO" NOW. I WANT TO CLARIFY THAT. PREVIOUSLY YOU USED THE WORD "CONSULTING."

MR. HELLER: IN REGARD TO WHAT?

MR. LIEBERMAN: WHEN? WHERE? HOW? WHAT?

MR. HELLER: EXACTLY.

MR. LIEBERMAN: DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHEN? WHERE? HOW? WHAT?

MR. HERTZBERG: THE RECORD IS TOTALLY UNCLEAR AS TO WHAT TIME FRAME, WITH RESPECT TO WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO. IT'S COMPLETELY IMPRECISE.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. DO YOU RECALL THAT AREA OF TESTIMONY, MR. MISCAVIGE, THAT YOU CONFERRED WITH ATTORNEYS?

MR. HELLER: WELL, THAT'S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED TWO SECONDS AGO.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. OKAY. I'M ASKING: WITH WHAT ATTORNEYS DID YOU CONFER?

MR. HERTZBERG: NO. WAIT A MOMENT. WAIT A MOMENT. YOU'RE GOING FROM A VAGUE, "DO YOU RECALL SOME MENTION OF CONSULTING WITH ATTORNEYS?" NOW --

MR. LIEBERMAN: I THINK THERE WERE SEVERAL MENTIONS OF CONSULTING WITH ATTORNEYS.

MR. HERTZBERG: EXACTLY, THAT'S THE PROBLEM. THAT'S WHY HE CAN ANSWER --

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

MR. HELLER: THAT'S WHY WHEN --

MR. LIEBERMAN: WHEN? WHERE? WHAT? I MEAN -- IF YOU CAN SPECIFY: WHEN? WHERE? WHAT? GIVE US A TIME FRAME.

MS. PLEVIN: WELL, WHEN I TRIED TO, I RECEIVED THE OBJECTION THAT I'M -- IT'S ASKED AND ANSWERED, AND I'M SIMPLY TRYING TO PROVIDE A MANNER FOR A JUMPING-OFF POINT.

MR. LIEBERMAN: I JUST DON'T REMEMBER.

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

MR. LIEBERMAN: AND APPARENTLY THE WITNESS DOESN'T REMEMBER.

MS. PLEVIN: WELL, HE DID UNTIL HE WAS -- UNTIL IT WAS SUGGESTED BY COUNSEL --

MR. LIEBERMAN: I REMEMBER THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT --

MR. HERTZBERG: NO. THE QUESTION WAS --

MR. LIEBERMAN: -- DISCUSSION WITH ATTORNEYS, AND I REMEMBER THERE WERE SEVERAL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT CONSULTING WITH ATTORNEYS.

MS. PLEVIN: I WILL REFRAME IT.

MR. LIEBERMAN: I'M NOT SURE WHICH ONE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

MS. PLEVIN: I WILL ATTEMPT TO REPHRASE TO MAKE IT CLEAR.

MR. HERTZBERG: AND BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT TO REPHRASE TO MAKE IT CLEAR, NOBODY IS SUGGESTING ANYTHING TO THE WITNESS.

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

Q. DO YOU RECALL THAT YOU TESTIFIED THAT YOU CONSULTED ATTORNEYS AND YOU WERE AN EMPLOYEE OF CSC AND THAT'S WHO THE CLIENT WAS WITH WHOM -- ON BEHALF OF WHICH YOU WERE CONSULTING ATTORNEYS?

A. AS STATED, NO.

Q. ALL RIGHT. WHAT IS YOUR RECOLLECTION, THEN? SO WE CAN PUT THIS IN PERSPECTIVE AND MOVE ON.

MR. HERTZBERG: NO. THAT QUESTION IS --

MR. HELLER: THAT'S NOT PROPER.

MR. HERTZBERG: IT'S NOT A PROPER QUESTION. "WHAT IS YOUR RECOLLECTION?" PLEASE ASK ANOTHER QUESTION.

MS. PLEVIN: ALL RIGHT.

Q. WHAT ATTORNEYS DID YOU CONSULT WITH?

MR. HELLER: WHEN? WHO? WHAT? HOW? WHERE?

MS. PLEVIN: I WILL LET THE QUESTION STAND; THE RECORD WILL REFLECT, PRECISELY, WHAT CONTEXT WE WERE REFERRING TO. I'M ASKING WITH WHICH ATTORNEYS, WHAT FIRMS HE'S CONSULTED.

MR. HELLER: AGAIN, DO YOU WANT A LIST OF THE ATTORNEYS?

(ATTORNEY-CLIENT DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)

MR. LIEBERMAN: I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT -- I REMEMBER DISCUSSIONS ABOUT CONSULTING WITH ATTORNEYS. I REMEMBER THAT THERE WAS AN ANSWER AT ONE POINT THAT HE DID SO ON BEHALF OF CSC, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THE CONTEXT WAS, AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE WITNESS DOES OR NOT.

MS. PLEVIN: HE ONLY ANSWERED --

MR. LIEBERMAN: IF THE WITNESS REMEMBERS PRECISELY WHAT THE CONTEXT WAS, THEN HE CAN ANSWER.

MS. PLEVIN: THERE'S ONLY ONE REFERENCE OF CONSULTING WITH ATTORNEYS ON BEHALF OF CSC, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M REFERRING TO. MR. LIEBERMAN: BUT I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THE CONTEXT WAS.

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

MR. LIEBERMAN: IF THE WITNESS DOES, FINE. THEN, IF HE DOESN'T, YOU'LL HAVE TO SPECIFY IT. I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU DON'T IDENTIFY IT FOR HIM, WHAT THE CONTEXT WAS. MS. PLEVIN: I HAVE.

Q. MR. MISCAVIGE, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION?

MR. HELLER: WHY DON'T WE HAVE THE QUESTION READ BACK SO THAT YOU CAN HEAR IT AGAIN?

THE WITNESS: YEAH.

MR. HELLER: DO YOU NEED THAT, DAVE?

THE WITNESS: OR SHE CAN TELL ME.

MR. HELLER: OKAY.

MR. HERTZBERG: HE'S GOING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION WHEN HE UNDERSTANDS IT.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT YOU CONSULTED ATTORNEYS AT A TIME -- IN THE CAPACITY OF BEING AN EMPLOYEE OF CSC AND THAT CSC WAS THE CLIENT.

A. THAT'S NOT -- I DON'T RECALL THAT BEING THE CONFERENCE YESTERDAY ON THE RECORD, NO, BUT -- ALL RIGHT. I REMEMBER THE AREA.

Q. OKAY. WITHOUT -- I DON'T INTEND TO LEAD --

A. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU JUST LET YESTERDAY BE WHATEVER IT SAID.

Q. RIGHT.

A. IF WE AGREE ON THAT.

Q. IN THAT AREA -- I DON'T INTEND TO MISCHARACTERIZE YOUR TESTIMONY.

A. I DON'T RECALL NECESSARILY THIS IS WHAT, EIGHT YEARS AGO.

Q. DO YOU RECALL WHO YOU RETAINED?

MR. HERTZBERG: NO. WAIT. WAIT, "RETAINED"?

MR. DRESCHER: I DON'T BELIEVE --

MR. HERTZBERG: HE DIDN'T SAY, "RETAIN." HE SAID HE CONSULTED.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. I'M ASKING: DID YOU RETAIN AN ATTORNEY?

MR. DRESCHER: WELL, I'M GOING TO OBJECT BECAUSE THE WITNESS WASN'T FINISHED WITH HIS ANSWER TO THE PRECEDING QUESTION.

MS. PLEVIN: I'M SORRY, MR. MISCAVIGE.

THE WITNESS: ON THE PRECEDING QUESTION, LIKE I SAID, I DON'T RECALL NECESSARILY EVERY NAME. I DO RECALL, I BELIEVE, LLH&M, MAYBE CHRIS COBB -- JUST ONE SECOND. (ATTORNEY-CLIENT DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)

THE WITNESS: THAT'S IT.

MS. PLEVIN: FOR THE RECORD, LLH&M REPRESENTS LENSKE, LENSKE, HELLER AND --

THE WITNESS: AND MAGNUSON.

MS. PLEVIN: AND MAGNUSON.

Q. AFTER YOU CONFERRED WITH COUNSEL, DID YOU DISCUSS -- WELL, LET ME STRIKE THAT. WHEN YOU CONFERRED WITH LLH&M, DID YOU -- WAS ANYBODY ELSE WITH YOU BESIDES COUNSEL? MR. HERTZBERG: YOU MEAN ON EVERY OCCASION?

MR. HELLER: IF THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE.

MR. HERTZBERG: IF THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE.

(ATTORNEY-CLIENT DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.)

THE WITNESS: I DON'T RECALL.

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

Q. DID YOU DISCUSS THE RESULTS OF YOUR CONFERENCES WITH LLH&M WITH OTHER PERSONS AT CSC?

A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN "THE RESULTS"? I DON'T UNDERSTAND'.

Q. THE CONTENT, RATHER THAN THE RESULTS.

A. NO.

Q. DID CSC RETAIN LLH&M, TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION?

A. I DON'T RECALL.

MR. DRESCHER: BEFORE HE ANSWERS, WITH RESPECT TO WHAT?

MR. HERTZBERG: HE DOESN'T KNOW.

MS. PLEVIN: WE'LL GO ON.

Q. DID CSC -- DID THE BOARD OF CSC EVER TAKE A VOTE, TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, REGARDING RECOMMENDATIONS MADE BY LLH&M?

MR. HELLER: OBJECT ON RELEVANCE. IT ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE, THAT THERE WERE RECOMMENDATIONS.

MR. HERTZBERG: WHY DON'T YOU LAY A FOUNDATION?

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. DID LLH&M MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CSC, TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE?

MR. HELLER: THAT GETS CLOSE TO ATTORNEY-CLIENT.

MR. LIEBERMAN: I THINK IT'S OBJECTIONABLE.

MR. HERTZBERG: NOW I THINK -- YEAH, THAT'S OBJECTIONABLE.

MS. PLEVIN: I'M NOT GOING INTO SUBSTANCE AT ALL.

MR. HERTZBERG: NO? THAT IS SUBSTANCE.

MR. DRESCHER: THAT IS SUBSTANCE.

MR. HERTZBERG: THAT IS SUBSTANCE.

MS. PLEVIN: ARE YOU INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER?

MR. HERTZBERG: YEAH, WE'RE ASSERTING ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE. I WOULD ALSO NOTE, PARENTHETICALLY, THAT I CONSIDER THIS TO BE COMPLETELY IMMATERIAL TO THIS LAWSUIT, AND WE HAVE NOW REACHED THE THRESHOLD, WHICH YOU HAVE JUST CROSSED, IN MY VIEW, OF INVADING THE -- SEEKING TO INVADE THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE.

MR. HELLER: JOIN ON BOTH OBJECTIONS.

MS. PLEVIN: ARE YOU INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER? MR. HERTZBERG: YES, I AM.

qq


go to part 16